brotherpeacemaker

It's about our community and our spirituality!

An Argument Against Affirmative Action

“…a factory owner has a line position open on a rather dangerous machine. Two men apply for the job. One of them has worked on such a machine before, for several years at a competitor’s factory. The other has worked on factory lines for several years, but never on this particular machine. The second person has only one arm.

The business owner might choose to hire the first man. He has more experience with the equipment, and in the event of an emergency, this person has a physically superior ability to manipulate the safety controls involved with stopping the machine. This is safer not only for the line worker hired, but also others working in the vicinity. It’s a wiser business decision.

Now as I understand it, (by all means, someone please correct me if I’m wrong), if person #1 is hired and person #2 decides it’s discriminatory, person #2 can enlist the help of an AA attorney and sue the business owner. At that point, the business owner’s livelihood and reputation are in jeopardy for making a logical business decision involving the safety of the workers.”Kelly Trainer

Where is it written that affirmative action requires a shop owner to hire an unqualified black person to operate a dangerous piece of equipment over a qualified white person? Do you know that this has happened? Or is this just the most extreme example that you could conjure up? Some people have this idea in their head that affirmative action somehow overrules common sense. If an unqualified person, a one armed man, is hired to operate dangerous equipment and someone is injured in the process then that company now has a serious lawsuit on its hands from the injured individual or his or her family.

This is just more of the affirmative action horror stories people with a white mindset who are so opposed to some kind of racially oriented social consciousness tell each other to justify their discrimination. This analogy ranks right up there with the company that had to hire the black person from the bus stop to be their new nuclear physicist because of affirmative action. The very suggestion of the thought is ridiculous.

Affirmative action is a program that tries to influence companies that have a history of avoiding the employment of minorities guidelines to do so. This doesn’t mean that they have to hire any and every black joe schmoe to fill their positions. The rules of employment remain in place. If a minority candidate is employed they must be qualified to do the job. A lot of people like to make the assumption that it is impossible for a company to find an educated black person for any professional position. It is virtually impossible for a black person to be a skilled machine operator unless he is flawed and has one arm. The assumption is that black people are always the inferior one.

Affirmative action is not the draconian social directive that forces employers to lose money. For some companies, affirmative action isn’t even an issue because the company has already demonstrated a willingness to be socially responsible and racially inclusive. But for the institutions that continue to operate as a white only club house, the company needs to find a minimum number of minority candidates for their positions. This doesn’t mean that a bank with an all white staff needs to go down to the park and find a black man feeding pigeons to fill their new vice president of marketing position.

The concept of saddling enterprising institutions with unqualified black people is a fantasy used to fuel white people’s angst against black people. There are black people who are very much qualified to be a machinist or a nuclear physicist or a bank vice president or whatever any company may need. Black people run the gamut from the unqualified to the seasoned, experience professional just like our white counterparts. Common sense should tell everyone that.

But instead, white people are happy to reinforce their superiority complex with ridiculous ideas that black people are intellectually, physically, and ethically inferior and incapable of handling the important jobs. The funny thing is that a racist employer who would want to confirm the inadequacy of black people would hire an unqualified black person out of spite just to show how affirmative action doesn’t work or how black people are not dependable.

Affirmative action is not oppressive. Affirmative action is not reverse discrimination. Affirmative action doesn’t go into a company and tells the management that they must find an unqualified minority candidate over the qualified white candidate. These are just stories of urban legend designed to frighten the white community and harden white people against any type of racial understanding. Affirmative action doesn’t take white people’s jobs. No one has ever lost their job because of affirmative action. This is just more of the racist hype people with a white mindset spread in order to undermine more black employment.

Why don’t white people ever tell the story of the company that was so racist that they chose to hire an unqualified white person for a job over the much more qualified black person? What about the story of the white business executive unqualified to run a corporation but instead ran the company into the ground? Or how about the horror story of an unqualified white man that managed to become President and ran an entire country into the ground? These aren’t urban legends. These are facts that we can all point to and confirm without exaggeration or without flat out lying. Stories of unqualified people are not regulated to any particular color.

Affirmative action is not the problem. It is the racism of people who refuse to give people from the black community an opportunity without some kind of external pressure. If we could rely on employers to honestly measure candidates by the content of their character then affirmative action would have never come into play in the first place. But somehow this is lost and replace with a concept that affirmative action wants white people to give up their livelihood for the first black person who walks through the door. If employers must always give preference to the black person why is it a fact that black unemployment is always significantly higher than white unemployment?

People who are against affirmative action are quick to only tell one side of the story. And in most cases, the side these people tell is something akin to an fairytale complete with an evil job stealing black person that stokes their fear of white people and harden their hearts to black people. The author of the quote above asked for correction if wrong. The author, and people who think like the author, are very wrong.

Monday, April 28, 2008 - Posted by | African Americans, Black Community, Black Culture, Black People, Life, Racism, Thoughts

33 Comments »

  1. “What about the story of the white business executive unqualified to run a corporation but instead ran the company into the ground?”

    Should we ever meet, I’ll tell you one of those stories. It did get a small amount of press at the time, but because it wasn’t yet a public company, it wasn’t deemed especially newsworthy.

    Comment by Deirdre Saoirse Moen | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  2. Thanks for the feedback Deirdre Saoirse Moen,

    I look forward to that conversation!

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  3. Brother Peacemaker, the above example didn’t include race at all. It was about hiring a handicapped vs. a non-handicapped person and the pressure AA places upon business owners to do so. In later comments, I asked if it would make a difference if one of the people were black, or if the factory owner was black. And if so, why?

    Again, I thank you for linking to the original post so anyone who chooses may read everyone’s comments, not just a smattering of mine. I think I’ve stated my feelings ad nauseum in the comments that followed the original post. Obviously on this issue we must agree to disagree, as is our mutual right.

    Respectfully,

    Kelly

    Comment by K. Trainor | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

    • You are actually describing a conflict with 29 CFR 1625.6 – Bona fide occupational qualification. The employer could discriminate against the one armed man based on the safety issues arising from the danger of the work and the impairment of skills needed for it because of the lack of one arm. A man can arguably be rejected from the role of “Liz Taylor in the Liz Taylor Story” even if he isn’t a hot transsexual more talented than Lindsey Lohan. Affirmative action does not require consideration of the unqualified of any race. Your hypothetical is informed by the quaint notion that factories with reputations are owned by sole proprietors and not giant corporations no single person can afford to sue. Even on contingency, see the loan trade that supports expensive trial lawyers on contingency. Your hypo has nothing to do with affirmative action and obfuscates the matter.

      Comment by Thomaskline217@comcast.net | Sunday, January 5, 2014 | Reply

  4. Thanks for the feedback Kelly,

    But I should have extended the excerpt a little further to include the following from your original comment…

    “Now add skin color that that example. Make person #1 white and person #2 black. (Still with a single arm.) It’s still not right.”

    You in fact did mention race. And this is the problem, when most people think of affirmative action they are thinking of race. We cannot just agree to disagree. That is the attitude that keeps this as a constant issue between the racial communities.

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  5. About your sidebar: I can understand why the shark is being hunted; most sharks who are “just being sharks” stay well away from human populations.

    We have to be weary of large predators that lose their fear of humans; they might well breed lots of offspring that aren’t afraid as well.

    As far as affirmative action goes: I’ve seen it abused in academic situations. That is, I’ve seen minority students “thrown to the wolves” (especially in technical classes) before they are ready thereby guaranteeing failure.

    The service academies have a good remedy for this: a year of prep school for promising but under prepared applicants, and many minority students fall into this category.

    Comment by blueollie | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  6. Thanks for the feedback blueollie,

    Most sharks stay away from people. They stay in the water. When people venture in the water that’s where sharks stay. Sharks don’t have signs in the water telling them people are in the area and they must stay out. Regardless, sharks are expected to have a higher level of reasoning than people want to give them credit for. Most of us have heard the conclusions that sharks operate on instinct. Therefore, I believe it is unreasonable to expect an instinctive shark will now display a logical thinking process of its relationship to humans. Why would a shark have an inherent fear of humans? In the water they are bigger, stronger, faster, and much more vicious. So why would a shark fear a human? That’s just more propaganda to justify some sick sense of revenge.

    The reason we call some animals predators is because they are predators. They kill to survive. But now we have this reasoning that predators have reasoning that they can kill anything but humans. It’s the laws of the jungle or something. But when a predator attacks the human that ventures into its environment it is now an aberration. It is this type of thinking that drives humans to think they have the right to destroy nature simply because we are the humans. If we don’t want sharks attacking us we need to stay out of the water. When a shark comes on land and starts eating people then we really do have a problem.

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  7. Kelly,

    If AA placed SO much pressure on businesses, wouldn’t it stand to reason that businesses would NOT be so woefully underrepresented by black professionals? If as you suggest with your argument that Affirmative Action is FORCING businesses into hiring the handicapped, the minority or the white woman, wouldn’t there be a LOT more of these people in each business?

    Yet we ALL know that businesses are predominantly white males. So it seems to me that businesses are either NOT concerned with Affirmative Action or NOT bending to the force that Affirmative Action is supposedly placing on them.

    Thanks

    Comment by theblacksentinel | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  8. BP,

    Word!! About the shark!! You don’t see black people get’n bit by sharks so apparently they like that white meat. HA! kidding.

    sorry to be off topic… but i must say… why are they going to kill the damn shark. If you’re swimming in the OCEAN and you happen to be the unlucky one to get bit by a shark then that was your fault, you entered into the water where you (human) are no longer the dominant species. Duh! Leave the damn shark alone. It was just try’n to find some food.

    As a person in a wheelchair… I’d have to say that that analogy is ridiculous. Although, I must say that if this man having one [arm] is the deciding factor then apparently you havn’t met too many one armed men. Having one [arm] doesn’t neccesarily disqualify you from […] being able to pull the correct lever in an emergency situation. he might can move that one arm faster than we with two can move. never know… they say people in wheelchairs can’t dance either. check out my homeboy (click here)…
    It’s the same thing… just because you/we perceive something as a disability doesn’t mean that to that person it is, nor in reality.
    But common sense would tell anyone one are or not that the man with the most experience with this particular machine is the candidate to go for… yet, this same candidate may have issue with tardiness or whatever… they’re are differnt factors involved. But when we try to define someone from what we think they can do rather than testing and allowing that person to perform and then making a logical/rational decision.

    Love.

    Comment by Damien | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  9. Thanks for the feedback Damien!

    You are perfectly correct! I have to admit that I had dismissed the one armed person because of their handicap without even thinking is it truly necessary for them to have both arms to do the job. Unlike some people, I am not afraid to admit that I’ve made a mistake and my thinking can be enhanced by someone with more experience on the topic at hand. That’s how we all grow!

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  10. BrotherP, Damien,

    I think that the one arm was the least of the problem or factor that I thought of or took from your (brotherp) comment. I took that she was saying that the man with one arm was woefully inept on that particular machinery. Since he is already working on another machine I did take that he was quite apt at working this type of job.

    The problem is that when we try and prove our point through stereotype it usually backfires. As the stereotype is probably never going to work to prove the point. Point in case: Usually when talking Affirmative Action the uneducated person who wants to prove a point will most times use the white man who has oodles of experience and education vs. the black man. They just assume that the black man CAN’T have the most experience or education. Because the stereotype they are working from is that black men are ignorant and lack real experience at least when compared to a white man.

    So she (K) was going for the shock affect of “oh no they are putting that one armed loser in the job over that highly qualified white man.” Nothing that is based in reality. The fact that she feels this man is handicapped and will bring very little to the job hearkens back to people’s feelings of superiority over those who they see as lacking. That is why Affirmative Action is a hot button for a lot of whites. They feel that it is somehow used to promote inferior people in positions at the expense of those who “they” KNOW are more superior without ever seeing either persons resume.

    This is why I am baffled as to why people continue to discuss this issue coming from a place of ignorance. Not only ignorance but also racism. People continue to make “UP” what Affirmative Action is, what can or can not do. This is the problem with issues of race. People don’t educate themselves before they pop off at the mouth.

    Sorry for the long wind. But I get bothered by those who won’t or can’t learn. You yourself BrotherP agree that Damien’s reply has helped you learn something. This is what it is all about. If you can’t learn as well as teach then you might want to hang up your keyboard.

    Thanks

    Comment by theblacksentinel | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  11. Thanks for the feedback theblacksentinel,

    Good point!

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  12. I didn’t make myself clear about sharks: they normally hunt away from beaches (that is where their food is); their going in near the beaches is abnormal behavior for them (else we’d never go to the beach and swim! 🙂 )

    Oh yes *we* are also predators. Hey, our eyes are on the front of our heads, right? 😉 So in some sense, it is “natural” for us to hunt down things that attack us.

    Comment by blueollie | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  13. Thanks again for the feedback blueollie,

    I apologize for giving you a hard time. I agree that it is unusual for the shark to come so close to shore. But it is still water. Plus, add the fact that at some points along Highway 1 seals have been collecting. I remember seeing a tape of people stopping on the side of the road just to see the seals collecting on the thin sliver of land between the sea and the highway. It was inevitable that the shark would follow the food. It was just a matter of time before there was an altercation between the shark and people. And now the shark must pay with its life. Only in America! 😉

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  14. I think that it would be a whole lot easier to understand people’s arguments against AA if someone would provide concrete examples of how AA has worked an unfair result. In the absence of such examples I’m inclined to think that it’s all a bunch of fear-mongering designed to undercut the utility of AA and, by undercutting its utility, to ultimately abolish AA. Full circle to the seperate-but-(un)equal situation of the pre-Brown v Bd of Education era.

    Most likely if someone can come up with an example of AA working an unjust result, there will be some room to demonstrate (a) the that problem is in the interpretation of what is a “fair” or “just result,” or (b) that the problem exists in someone’s erroneous interpretation or application of what the AA policy in question requires.

    The policy itself is a good thing. I’m interested in hearing solid, evidence-backed examples of what wrongs it has wrought.

    Comment by micah pyre | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  15. Thanks for the feedback micah pyre,

    But I strongly suggest that you not hold your breath!

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Monday, April 28, 2008 | Reply

  16. I can give you an example of how AA has worked negatively for my family. My brother applied for a firefighter’s position, he was number 1 on the list to be hired in terms of written test results and agility testing. He should have been among those hired that year. However, AA contributed to him being pasted over for a job. AA makes companies afraid of legal action if they pass over a less qualified minority for a better qualified majority. It is not serving the purpose it was intended. Aren’t we trying to teach our children to look beyond skin color and see all people and the same? AA does just the opposite. As long as we keep it around, we will continue to see racism in this country.

    Comment by Monee08 | Friday, May 16, 2008 | Reply

  17. Thanks for the feedback Monee08,

    So the people who hire candidates to be firefighters made the test scores and agility scores of all the applicants public information and then had the audacity to pass people over to hire the less qualified minority candidate. You are going to have to forgive my skepticism. When the fire department decides to hire they have a number of opportunities to fill. They have a civil test that a number of people take at the same time. The same is true for the physicals, everybody takes them at the same time. As far as I know, people’s scores are not made public information. And if your brother was number one as you claim, and they are making several hires at the same time, if he was passed over for the first job, he should have gotten the second, or the third, etcetera. Unless it is Mayberry, there will be several employment opportunities at any given time when the decision is made to hire.

    Please take a moment to read this article from the Center for Constitutional Rights. The article outlines the racial inequality of the large city fire department. The people in the article had to sue the government in order to get the test scores of the applicant. But somehow your brother was able to get that information freely.

    I cannot convey how dubious your story or your brother’s story sounds. Affirmative action does not make it illegal not to hire a black person. If that was true there would be a number of companies with black people the majority in management and at the executive level. And yet, I can’t think of a single company where this is the case. Why do people insist on this claim that companies are being sued left and right for not hiring a black person? That is just plain foolishness designed to scare white people into thinking that black people have some kind of advantage when we don’t. It’s like Geraldine Ferraro’s claim that the only reason Mr. Obama is getting all this political attention is because he is black. If that was the case then a black person would have been president a long time ago.

    And white people are never passed over for a less qualified white person. White people are only passed over to hire less qualified black people. Besides, everybody knows that to get hired as a firefighter all you need is to score high on the test administered and developed by white people and score high on the agility test. Nothing else matters.

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Friday, May 16, 2008 | Reply

  18. Monee08,

    Are you saying that your brother was the ONLY white applicant and everyone else was black? Then maybe he could be sure that he was passed over for a black candidate. If they had white, black AND other races of applicants then how does he know that HIS job was given to a black person through affirmative action? Also, you notice I emphasized “HIS”, since why is he so sure HE was the one who should be hired?

    Is his confidence that he was number one due to the fallacy that many white people have that they are the most qualified simply because the competition is black? Since BrotherP is totally correct that the civil tests scores are kept private. I have taken the civil test and beat out hundreds of other candidates MANY of whom were white and they didn’t know my scores and I didn’t know theirs.

    So by your own statements you are either doing like BrotherP said and being a fear monger or you and/or your brother is delusional and/or a liar. Also, just to drum it into you and others Affirmative Action is a set of guidelines NOT some strict set of laws with hawkish lawyers waiting around every corner at every job place waiting to snatch every minority that doesn’t get hired and begin the lawsuit process.

    Give me and everyone else a break PLEASE?

    Comment by theblacksentinel | Friday, May 16, 2008 | Reply

  19. Well my husband works as an electrician. All the men go out and do their job, BUT the black man you can not get to do anything. You can’t even find him. He will usually just go around town in his truck and visit friends or sleep in his truck on the side of the road. His Boss can not rid himself of this man even though he’s tried. The man yells “Afirmation Action” and is unqualifed and lazy to top it off. He’s even threaten law suits if anyone has him fired. He was hired to fill a slout in the company by ‘Affirmative Action” for a minority black person. He lied on his resume, and no other black applicants were qualified either My husband has talked to a lot of companies around and found out this is happening all over the place. The non-working man has yet to be qualified as an electrician but is suppose to be working on it, but he won’t study or work. The hard working other employee has to take up the slack. There are plant employees at a plant nearby saying that they have the same problems. I think it’s “High time” that people are judged on whether they can do a job instead of the color of their skin. Yes, there are a lot of people that take jobs they can’t do and know just use the system. Even if they get in trouble for doing things they shouldn’t do….these actions are dismissed. When will it end?
    Lynnae

    Comment by Lynnae | Thursday, July 10, 2008 | Reply

  20. Thanks for the feedback Lynnae,

    But I only hear stories of companies having a hard time firing people from white people who insist it is impossible to fire black people. When I turn on the news I constantly hear stories of companies laying off thousands of people, I constantly hear stories of people being fired for fraud and misrepresentation. But no company in the country can fire lazy black people who don’t report for work and misrepresent themselves on their resume because they are too afraid of being sued.

    And it’s always only the black employee that is so lazy and shiftless. There is never a story of a white employee being incompetent or never showing up for work. All white people are hardworking. But the only black person that the company was forced to hire because they wouldn’t hire black people originally is shiftless.

    Forgive my suspicion but I cannot believe you or your husband or all of your white friends all over the place and at other plants who have the same problem. If all these black men lied on their resumes and no one bothered to check their credentials it sounds like the white employees in the human resource departments at all of these companies are pretty lazy and irresponsible as well. It also sounds like all the white people who work in the legal department and in management are too lazy to tackle the problem of incompetent employees as well. It is not too hard to fire people who are incompetent or who refuse to do their job. It happens all the time. But let white people tell the story and black people never work and black people can never be fired even though our unemployment rates are significantly higher than white people’s. When will these blatant, white, affirmative action lies ever end?

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Friday, July 11, 2008 | Reply

  21. Lynnae,

    You will excuse me if I have a hard time believing your story. I have worked with many races of people who were lazy or didn’t do their job in one way or another and they were ALL fired. He can scream affirmative action all he wants and what exactly does that mean? What is it going to do for him? Is there a law that says he CAN’T be fired or something?

    Also, how do you account for all the lazy white people in the workforce? I watched a news report on the parks department in Spokane Washington and that place is 90% white. The story was about lazy park workers sleeping on the job in the park. The news cameras went out and filmed them and they were all white. So why are white people in general not now seen as lazy because of these white men?

    The answer is that white people see white people as individuals. Meaning that one white person sleeps on the job does NOT mean ALL white people sleep on the job. Yet, you and your loser husband say a black man is sleeping on the job and somehow that has something to do with affirmative action. Now that you found a lazy black man, you can claim it is happening all over the place. This is the racism which keeps affirmative action necessary.

    What you should be thinking is that your husband should be looking at the person who hired this man. Because obviously they have a problem with doing a thorough job interviewing people. Has this person been reprimanded for his obviously lack of ability to do his job? I bet not.

    Who is this phantom person who is calling all these companies and finding that they have lazy black workers all screaming affirmative action? Is this the persons job? I have worked for over 25 years and I have never seen this type of behavior. Don’t get me wrong I have seen my share of lazy people like I have said. I just have yet to see the black screaming affirmative action as if it is some sort of threat.

    Why don’t you do me a favor and tell your husbands idiotic employer that affirmative action is a set of standards NOT LAWS. You don’t HAVE to keep anyone employed that does NOT do his or her job. Maybe your husband, his employers, the phantom phone caller, and all the other businesses should do a bit more to educate themselves instead of feigning outrage at a situation they are creating for themselves.

    Thanks.

    Comment by theblacksentinel | Friday, July 11, 2008 | Reply

  22. Well the story I told you is true. Believe it or not. You don’t have to keep a person true but when the person takes you to court about losing his job, which he says he is well qualifies for, very powerful lawyers-providied many times for special groups let them keep their jobs…this is so ture.
    And there’s another thing in cities around that have black in management the city will let black employess stay on their jobs even if theyfail drug tests. There are a lot of reverse discrmination cases going to court where a fireman who tops the tests and has the most experinence is looked over because the management of the city wants a black fireman to be the chief and the white employee if he stays will do the work. So he won his case and is hired at another place that appreciates him. The man who didn’t deserve the job at the other place…he gets the job! Even though he’s not qualified, he’s find a person to do his work, while he collects the paycheck!
    Inthe area where I live they can not even get black hospital employees to work, not everyone of them but I’d say a majority.
    My sister worked in a nursing home- in a very liberal state the employees that worked under her mostly black were not doing their jobs and were leglecting patients very bad my sister’s life was threatened by a group because she told management about them. The black workers also would talk down and rude to the older patients because they could get away with it. The management had a hard time dealig with these employees, so my sister quit and went to a different nursing home that had a low amount of blacks. You should check around more and you’d find out that I’m telling the truth whether you know it or not.
    Affirmative Action has been in place for a long time
    Now it’s time to hire a person on their merits and not by the color of their skin to meet a quota. Many places have to meet a quota when no black employees that are any good apply they must pick from this group and hire an employee
    Other minority groups many times are better workers than
    blacks and aren’t use to idea that they can stay on a job without working- they work hard to help their families.

    Comment by Lynnae | Saturday, July 12, 2008 | Reply

  23. Thanks for the feedback Lynnae,

    Again, you’ll have to excuse my suspicion. Black people who don’t work don’t have access to very powerful lawyers. However, you did mention a reverse discrimination lawsuit. Now that I can believe because white people like yourself are always more than ready to sue some company that wants to try and promote racial diversity. Companies that have a history of keeping black people out will have a change of heart and try to correct the wrong against the entire black community will implement a racial diversity program to help undo the discrimination that is their history. As soon as a company or institution makes it public that it wants to reserve a fraction of the opportunities available for people of color, white people will sue for reverse discrimination.

    No white person in any of your stories ever ran across a black person with good character or with a good work ethic. Listen to the hateful propaganda you spew. Black people are lazy. Black people don’t go to work. Black people are dishonest. Black people lie on their resume. Black people are unqualified. I have worked in many companies where there was a lazy, dishonest, white person, who was unqualified for their job. I don’t know if they lied on their resume because I never saw it and I’m not about to embellish my story by lying like you say all black people do. But instead of saying all white people mimic these white people’s behavior I will say that the individual white person has a problem. And there are some white people who excel at their jobs.

    You talk about groups attacking your sister. I’m assuming this is the group of lazy black people. All the black workers talk down to patients and yet your sister never saw a white worker talking down to patients because in your world white people never do anything wrong. It is obvious that you are racially prejudice and you, like many white people, have something against black people. It’s always your husband or your sister or your husband’s coworkers or your sister’s coworkers or the white workers at the other plant who always see black people doing wrong but white people are as pure as the driven snow.

    But the truth of the matter is that white people like yourself are about as tainted as yellow snow. Your story would sound better if you could recite at least one instance where a company was sued by a lawyer for violating affirmative action programs. It would be more plausible if you could recite the case that has so many companies so afraid of losing a lawsuit for firing black workers or the black person who successfully sued a company because he or she was fired.

    But instead, all we will get are stores about how your brother knew a guy who had a cousin whose uncle lost his job because he was the best worker at the plant but management decided to hire a black person and never checked the black man’s credentials to learn that he had lied on his resume and did not know how to do his job and did nothing but sleep at work all day and yelled at the other employees and made them feel bad and the management was too spineless to fire him because every time somebody looked at the black guy he started yelling affirmative action and had his affirmative action lawyer on his cell phone’s speed dial. This racist muck is so easy to spew.

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Saturday, July 12, 2008 | Reply

  24. Lynnae,

    I am sorry your story is about as credible as a four year old kid trying to explain how he didn’t break the lamp. Or better yet how about as credible as a 3 dollar bill. You claim that they SAY they will sue, well how about firing them and testing it out.

    Where are all these lawyers you talk about? There are no such thing as affirmative action lawyers. And since you are so sure of yourself, please state the case that I can go look at where a black person who was NOT doing their job successfully sued over affirmative action?

    Interesting that you cite the fireman story since someone else cited the exact same case which supposedly involved their brother. You people are pathetic. You claim that your sister worked in a nursing home and blacks were not doing their jobs. I worked in a hospital where a fellow nurse who was white was sleeping with men in the hospitals empty rooms. I also worked in a nursing home and I was the only black person there. The white aides that worked their were neglectful to the point I had to quit. So you think black people have a corner on the market of not doing their jobs. You want to add the blacks up to affirmative action, what is the white people’s problem?

    And according to you blacks are NEVER qualified. So when you say hire someone on their merits it sounds like you mean just hire white since they do their jobs. When I can see your racially charged stories with racially charged stories of my own. You see I have lived in predominantly white areas for the majority of my life. And I have plenty of stories of lazy, violent, worthless white people that I have worked with. Since I was the only black at the majority of my jobs I have tons of stories and they aren’t about brothers or sisters, they are about me seeing it with my own eyes.

    I agree affirmative action was in place LONG before blacks received it. White people such as yourself act as if white people only hiring white people is NOT affirmative action. What do you call it when white people hire whites based solely on their race? AFFIRMATIVE ACTION! So you need to get a bit more education because it sounds like you, your family and friends are woefully lacking in the areas of common sense.

    Thanks

    Comment by theblacksentinel | Saturday, July 12, 2008 | Reply

  25. I know some good black people that do work. And you are stating that a person that makes highest on a test and is the most qualified just just move over and let a person less qualified have the job, because of his color? And by the way there are more law suits with blacks saying they are discriminated against than the other way around. I tell the truth as I see it. I am not a four year old, and certainly don’t have a four year old mind. I have seen a lot in the world and have an open mind. I do know some nice black people..but in the businesses I mention what I claim is true. You should know that more suits are made about white people discrimination than the other way around . And yes there are some high powered lawyers out there that defend black people, very true indeed.
    These are my final words.

    Comment by Lynnae | Sunday, July 13, 2008 | Reply

  26. Lynnae,

    Finally you admit that not all black people are lazy and good for nothing. You admit that even though you actually know first hand some black people who do work, you allow your perspective of black people’s character and work ethic to be defined by your husband’s second hand story about the third hand stories from all of the other plants that can’t get the black people they hire to work or your sister’s story about black people at the nursing home being rude to patients and refusing to work but have the muster to chase your sister in groups.

    I am sure you are not a four year old. But no matter how old you are your stories carry about as much weight as a four year old’s. You failed to mention the name of these companies that are having such problems with their black employees or the names of the high powered affirmative action law firms in your area that have emergency affirmative action response teams.

    I know that it takes a history of racial discrimination and an environment void of racial diversity before any black person could even hope to be taken seriously. But a single white person can claim reverse discrimination against a white company or institution with a history of practicing favoritism for white people simply because the institution finally implements a desire for racial diversity. You claim you know all the candidates’ test scores. This information is not regularly distributed by companies so the fact that you claim to know this information is highly questionable. This simple fact alone makes your story and everyone else who makes the same claims, truly hard to take seriously.

    Thankfully, you have made your final, impossible to take seriously, words on this subject.

    Peace

    Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Sunday, July 13, 2008 | Reply

  27. Lynnae,

    How does affirmative action have anything to do with a person being less qualified? See that is the problem, you have this belief that blacks who might or might not be receiving affirmative action are somehow less qualified. What about the white person who has a lower score or is less qualified that gets a job over the more qualified black person? Or is that just impossible in your world.

    You are right blacks are being discriminated against more than anyone else. That is why they have to sue these racist companies, DUH!! Your mind is about as open as a closed sign. You claim that your stories are true. Please Lynnae, tell me how these so called businesses are giving out personal information about employees such as what is on their resumes, if they did or didn’t finish school, if they do or don’t do their jobs, their attendance records and all the other things you claim with obviously no regards for the law. It is highly illegal to dispense that type of information to others. You are not even allowed to say those things to someone checking references. So how is it that you know all this personal information about all these men who work at all these other companies?

    Are white people who work in this industry giving other white mens information out just as easily and without regards to the law? Or is that something that is reserved for blacks only. It sounds to me like all these companies you just named might be practicing some sort of racism indeed.

    You keep claiming that more law suits are made from whites discriminating against blacks than the other way around. That is TRUE! Are you going to tell me that there are NO whites discriminating against blacks in the workplace and that every lawsuit out there is frivolous? We know that racism exists and it is more prevalent in the white communities dealings with blacks. Sorry that is the facts of life and if you have a mind above a four year old like you claim then you too would know this to be true.

    No one said that there weren’t high powered lawyers out there defending blacks, they deserve representation also. What you said were that there were “very powerful lawyers-providied many times for special groups let them keep their jobs”. What special groups? Name them! I am black and I have been discriminated against many, many times in my working career and not one of these so called “special groups” have sent me any “very powerful lawyer”. In fact not one black person I know and I know LOTS of black people have ever had contact with these “special groups” sending out “very powerful lawyers”.

    Is this only in your area and if so, where is that so I can look into it myself. You want to sound credible but you give no specifics and keep making references to things that you can’t prove. I can prove to you that white people lie on their resumes, sleep on the job, are lazy, don’t do good work, are rude to customers, neglect patients and do all the things you claim ONLY these affirmative action blacks are doing.

    Have you ever thought that some blacks get jobs without affirmative action? Or is that just too far fetched? You know if blacks are only being hired around you as you say “Many places have to meet a quota when no black employees that are any good apply they must pick from this group and hire an employee”. So basically what you are saying is that in YOUR area white companies don’t hire blacks until they HAVE TO FILL A QUOTA and ALL the blacks they have to choose from are LAZY, UNQUALIFIED and BAD WORKERS. So why are these companies not hiring the best candidate? Why are black candidates not being hired until they have A QUOTA to fill? This sounds terribly racist to me.

    Do you listen to yourself? If I were to say that the black owned companies around me only hire whites to fill a quota. And ALL of the white people they have to choose from are LAZY, SHIFTLESS, BAD WORKERS with no qualifications. Would you think that sounds kind of racist or at least terribly incredible? My dear you have a lot of preconceived notions about blacks that you don’t even know. You are just making off the cuff comments that ALL the blacks in your area are somehow worthless. And you don’t see how a black person or anyone else with a brain for that matter would see this as racist?

    Get yourself educated because the things that you say are obviously the ramblings of a very ignorant person. At least read what you say and think hard about your comments as they sound extremely racist with a lot of blanket statements about people you could NOT possibly know anything about.

    Thanks

    Comment by theblacksentinel | Sunday, July 13, 2008 | Reply

  28. Frankly I feel that Affirmative Action is (for the most part) useless. I have been doing research on this issue by reading up on Supreme Court cases like Bakke v UC Davis. UC Davis set up a quota for minorities, and as a result Allen Bakke was not chosen because the remaining enrollments to be filled were for minorities. Bakke’s grades were much higher than the students he lost his enrollment to. As a result the Supreme Court ordered that UC Davis enroll Allen Bakke. This is one of the exceptional cases where Affirmative Action is unjustified. Affirmative Action was brought about because many employers and schools would choose far more whites than minorities.

    I agree with Deirdre Saoirse Moen’s statement when it came to the under qualified white executive. I am someone who believes that a job needs to be filled with someone who is the best that one can find. If the best worker is white, but has an attitude problem, and a lesser qualified, yet experienced applicant is black, but is great to get along with I would hire the black worker. From this aspect it’s coworker cohesion. The applicant can always learn to work more efficiently, but a bad attitude can be dangerous and sometimes more time consuming intensive than the factory work. Personality goes a long way with me. I have worked with and interacted with blacks a great deal. I don’t know why it is, but it seems to me that the blacks can be easier to work with than whites. One of which was this huge black guy who could driven me into the ground like a tent stake, but instead defended me when I was being put under the thumb of my white comrades. I can’t thank him enough. Even then it all comes down to responsibility. The reason why we have so many laws is because so many people do stupid things that require legal actions to be taken. In an ideal world employers and academic administrators would hire and enroll people based on skill, credentials and personality based on reasonable ideals and not an overt prejudice. What I value most in a worker is dedication, creativity, and personality. I would want to surround myself with cultural, ethnic, academic, and creative diversity.

    There are none so empty as those who are so full of themselves. Yours truly.

    Comment by Jesse | Sunday, December 7, 2008 | Reply

  29. As soon as I saw the words “white people” I stopped reading…

    (Rest of comment was deleted)

    Comment by Jack Norris | Thursday, June 2, 2011 | Reply

    • Thanks for the feedback Jack Norris,

      I know how you feel! As soon as I saw the words “I stopped reading” I did the same thing!

      Peace

      Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Sunday, June 5, 2011 | Reply

  30. How do you starve a black guy? You hide his food stamps under his work boots

    Comment by Brittany | Tuesday, April 30, 2013 | Reply

    • Thanks for the feedback Brittany/Robert Moore,

      Not only does that sound like something a white person is likely to say, it also sounds like something a white person would do if they thought it would work!

      Peace

      Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Thursday, May 2, 2013 | Reply


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