Black People Infringing On White Culture

”I see your point well and its a good one (about the guy in the cubicle). However, I DON’T want to upset the status quo in most areas (bum rush it and flip the table, so to speak). I want people to want to change over time. There is permanancy in that. If we don’t want white people screwing up our culture, why are we trying to infringe on theirs? “ – Carlton
But the major problem with your strategy is that it changes nothing. Your perception is that it is better for the black community if we get permission from the dominant community to participate in their culture. You imply that black people having jobs is an infringement on white people as if we are not entitled to have jobs, educational opportunities, housing, and such. You talk as if black people demanding a fair shot at opportunities are an unfair imposition against the white community. You are correct in your statement that you want to maintain this arrangement. And, sadly, you are more likely to work to protect this arrangement where white people feel entitled to reject black people at their discretion, instead of working to empower the black community.
A black person working in corporate America is not a black person trying to screw up white people’s culture. It is a fact of life that in order to be able to pursue life, liberty, and happiness in America, it is necessary to have a job. It is mandatory to have an education. We need these opportunities just as much as the white community does. The status quo needs to change. Unfortunately, that is one point of my argument that you cannot see.
”Most of the problems with the Black race (at this point) is due to poor choices that are magnified by the discrimination. Say, for example, in college I have a white roommate. He parties 3 times a week and asks me with him. We both graduate with a ‘C’ average. We both eye the same job with a white corporation. I have to be aware that as a black man, the chances of me beating him out is pretty darn slim. I may not even beat him out if I had an ‘A’ average, but at least I have a fighting chance.” – Carlton
This is little more than another weak justification for racial disparity based on nothing but an unsubstantiated racial stereotype. How do you judge most of the problems stem from the poor choices that black people make?
A study by Devah Pager, an Associate Professor of Sociology and Faculty Associate of the Office of Population Research at Princeton University conducting research focused on racial stratification in education, labor markets, and the criminal justice system, did a study where she discovered that a black person with a criminal record looking for employment opportunities had a callback rate of about five percent. Black testers without a criminal record had a callback rate of fourteen percent. But white testers with a criminal record had a callback rate of seventeen percent with a criminal record and thirty four percent without. A white man with a criminal conviction has a better chance of getting a job than a black man who keeps his nose clean. So how does this equate to black people’s poor choices and not the racism associated with the status quo that you are trying to defend and protect?
” There’s no law we can make that can change that.” – Carlton
You are so correct. There is no law we can write to change things especially when we don’t even try because too many people don’t want to upset the status quo.
”White corporations throw out resumes from Kareem Jenkins and Taneisha Powell without even looking at them, but will at least skim the ones from Thomas Jones and Elizabeth Morris. How do you word a law to change that situation? You can’t-not without furthering the chasm between the races. The only way to beat that is to win over hearts one at a time.” – Carlton
So the act of corporations throwing resumes out because names sound too ethnic is not furthering the chasm between the races. Is that your contention? Somehow the black community is supposed to be content with the fact that our resumes get rejected based on nothing but the sound of a name. We have to adapt and change everything we are to fit the parameters corporate America deems acceptable. And why should corporate America make change when there are so many people like you who say this behavior is okay because we can’t write any laws to change it?
I say screw writing laws. If a corporation doesn’t want to support the black community then the black community should respond likewise. It’s not hard. All it takes is a sense of community. But that would mean black people working together and we know how you feel about that. It’s better if we prove that we like the status quo exactly the way it is and that way a handful of us will get the jobs and lead the good life so we won’t make too much of an imposition on white cultures and they can continue to hold all the cards.
” We have to treat everyone like we’d want to be treated.” – Carlton
Doesn’t this philosophy apply to people who control corporate America. Why aren’t you calling them out the way you claim to do in one of your previous comments? Wrong is wrong, remember?
” If I can’t win you over as a white brother to see there needs to be some parity if you’re going to call yourself my white brother, I neutralize you or move on; I don’t try to subjugate you.” – Carlton
Who is trying to subjugate the white brothers? It is amazing the number of people who see a call for equal and fair treatment across racial lines as the subjugation of white people. And you neutralize the white brother? Somehow I seriously doubt it. You said yourself you don’t want to do anything to disturb the status quo. You feel we need permanent changes. The type of change you want is the type of change where nothing really changes and the status quo stays exactly the same because black people should not be trying to infringe on white people’s culture of employment, education, and other opportunities.

Hello, brotherpeacemaker,
How are you doing? Have I upset you?
Dark Frosty,
I’m fine! Thank you for asking. Have you upset me? No. But your question about what is African deserves a thoughtful reply. I wanted to do a post on the subject.
Peace
That damn “carlton” needs a bullet between the eyes, fucking coon
With a name like carlton, how do you expect him to feel about the black race. He’s nothing but a slave catching coon, and I wonder why you even bother wasting your time with this clown. Debating with him is just a waste of time,electricity, and webspace. He means the black community no good, why waste your time with him?
Let him go cozy up to the whites since he loves his “white brothers” so much.
Sick,truly sick.
Congratulations, Mr. Shabazz. You are the first person to use a racial slur with me in at least five years. Way to uplift the race you love so much. I live in a county that’s about 70% white (and 25% of those are hardcore rural rednecks) and a guy named Shabazz is the first one in half a decade to treat a “brother” with that much utter disrespect.
The president of our local National Action Network chapter will be quite amused to hear about this. After all, he was in attendance at the last foster youth banquet I organized on May 28th. He didn’t HAVE to come. He knew it was my “baby” (sounds like an endorsement to me). In addition, we both serve on the board of a local community service organization for kids. He’s very militant. I’m sure if he thought I was a shill he would have called me out long ago-he’s done it before with other people.
And that term that you appear to despise so much- “white brothers”? I first came in contact with that in “The Autobiography of Malcolm X”. I consider that pretty good company.
I am so disgusted by these comments it makes me want to vomit. I can’t even begin to wrap my mind around his logic. If I didn’t know better I would guess that he was crazy.
But anyhow, my ancestors have been here about as long as any white persons family and in some cases longer. And I should feel that I am infringing upon white people’s culture is sickening.
And I guess he doesn’t feel that white people are infringing upon our culture when they take it upon themselves to throw out resumes with names that are obviously black or minority.
What a freaking shill. I am so disgusted! Is this dudes last name Banks? Is this Carlton Banks from Fresh Prince? Or do they just have the same outlook on life. Blacks should wait until white people feel necessary to change their ways.
You know we played that little game a while back. Like during slavery! And guess what, if the country had not been in a mess over other things we would still be slaves. What a total loon!
Thanks
Thanks for the feedback Shabazz and theblacksentinel,
But Carlton represents a large segment of the black community that wants to endear themselves to the dominant community. Carlton claims that he wants to help the black community. But the way he wants to help is to distract young black people from looking at the big picture and focus only on what is good for them and not what is good for the entire black community. Carlton claims he is instrumental in teaching young people how to deal with our environment of racial disparity and that he wants to use this forum as a means to teach these people. If that’s the case, then these young people need to see what Carlton is from a more enlightened perspective. Yes, its easy to get ahead if you have no social conscious. Corporate America does well not because it looks out for the public’s interest but because corporate America looks out for corporate America’s interest. Black people can do well if they don’t look out for the black community’s interest but look to do well for their own interest. And what better way to get ahead than to get a job in corporate America. And what better way to get ahead in corporate America than to prove you have absolutely no affiliation with the black community. Black people who protect white people’s interest do well in America. Carlton represents what can happen if we are not careful. We need to wake up and call this kind of thinking out. Ignore it and it will continue to foster. Yes it takes a lot of time and effort, but that’s part of the black community struggle. I think the black community is worth me spending the time to talk to the likes of Carlton.
Peace
This is soooo cool. Thanks for the forum. I’m endlessly beholden to you. I’m making selective cuts (without too much identifying info about me) from this and handing it out without our names for discussions with select youth and peers. So far it’s about 35% you. The killer seems to be my pointing out constantly that you overstate and twist what my actual thoughts/feelings are and your willingness to be pulled into wild accusations and name calling. One youth in particular wants to start a debate club ala “The Great Debaters” because of the exchanges. If I have time that might just be a great boon. But then again he’s 19, maybe I can convince him to do it on his own but with my moral support.
Carlton,
I think we’re helping each other. If you’re making selective cuts from this blog and handing them out and then reinforcing your position by constantly pointing out that I overstate and twist your actual thoughts and feelings and I make wild name calling statements, then I must say you have the advantage. You might see your advantage as killer. However, I must point out the fact that while you are actively controlling your teaching environment, actively steering the conversation to your agenda, and I’m passively getting about a third of your students to agree with my points, I believe I am doing very well indeed. If I may use one of your quotes,
If I’m getting to one third of the people you are actively trying to reach, that third will be thankful and will help make a difference in others. There is hope for the black community yet.
Peace
BrotherP,
Well I guess no ever said it was easy helping the black community. And if talking to Carlton is the price we have to pay, then so be it.
But, personally I think that you are going above and beyond the call of duty with this one. And since you are, kudos to you for your commitment to enlightening the black community one Carlton at a time.
Thanks!
1. So when did I say that black people looking to work in corporate America are looking to infringe on white culture? Our discussion was about people ALREADY in corporate America-two guys sitting in cubicles across from each other. Our original discussion was about how these two people should relate to each other. My statement was, quite simply, that if you want that guy to respect your culture, you have to respect his. That’s not boot licking, that’s common courtesy. You are quite the artist at twisting intent.
2. This is kind of ironic. I’m a psychology major with a minor in sociology. I know Pager’s study well and often reference it . If you looked it over again you would see that she tells stories of how employers were hiring (in effect) candidates most like them. For example (from an abstract of the study):
“[The employer] said, ‘Do you have Irish in you?’ I (The former convict)said, ‘On my mother’s side I do.’ He asked what else I have. I said, ‘French.’ He was delighted! He said he has Irish and French in him, too. He said we could be related because we are both from FrIreland (France & Ireland). I said yes and laughed with him.” Kevin concluded his report by offering his impression of the interaction: “He really wanted to help me out and seemed to be going to great lengths to find me a job.”
She was basically saying that if the interviewer is white, there’s a better chance the guy hired is gonna be white. That’s not racism unless you are ready to say that black supervisors (who tend to do the same thing) are also racist. To me racism is to look at someone who is coming through the door you are in charge of guarding and protesting in your head (or loudly): “not over MY dead body” like the guy in the picture you chose. I don’t see many supervisors that do that.
Two years ago for some reason, my agency got a huge budget windfall. Hiring more workers to handle the influx of clients that we got due to the recession was first on the list. The top supervisor then was black. She hired 11 new people that year. In a county that is 30% black she hired 7 of the 11 as black women (just like her) and plus one black man. The other three new hires were women (like her) but white. I know her well and don’t consider her a racist. Under your definition she is, however, because she held the mechanisms of power and her race prospered because of it. Should the KKK and Limbaugh come out and march against her? (And before you get it twisted, I LOVE ALL BLACK ORGANIZATIONS FIGHTING FOR THE EQUAL RIGHTS OF BLACK FOLKS). Should the local news write a major story and expose her plot to keep white folks down? If you truly believe in parity, ALL those things should have happened to her. But instead, white folks showed up at her retirement party and cried as they hugged her neck (I sang “Never Woulda Made it” like a good little minstrel, LOL). Oh there were whispers and insinuations (a couple of my white friends let me in on the gossip) but there were not staged protests or calls to the media. Finally there are the words of Pager herself in a statement she wrote to senior staff at her university:
Madam Chair and Commissioners,
I am pleased to have the opportunity to participate in this meeting on employment discrimination issues faced by individuals with arrest and conviction records. Today, I will be presenting the results of a large-scale field experiment I conducted with Bruce Western in New York City investigating the effects of race and a prison record on employment. In this study, teams of black and white men were matched and sent to apply for hundreds of low-wage jobs throughout the city, presenting equivalent resumés and differing only in their race and criminal background. The results of this study demonstrate a large negative effect of a criminal record on employment outcomes, and one which appears substantially larger for African Americans. The sequence of interactions preceding hiring decisions suggests that black applicants are less often invited to interview, thereby providing fewer opportunities to establish rapport with the employer. Further, employers’ general reluctance to discuss the criminal record of an applicant appears especially harmful for black ex-offenders. OVERALL, THESE RESULTS POINT TO THE IMPORTANCE OF RAPPORT BUILDING FOR FINDING WORK-SOMETHING THAT THE STIGMATIZING CHARACTERISTICS OF MINORITY AND CRIMINAL STATUS MAKE MORE DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE.
Thank you for your consideration of this research. I will look forward to your questions and comments.
Sincerely,
Devah Pager
Associate Professor
Department of Sociology
Princeton University
And so we see, the mistakes these young men made were amplified by discrimination. I told you man, I was a research psychologist for one of my semesters. I’m very learned on this stuff. Everything I say has basis in the research. The problem is people use statistics to tell the story THEY want most to believe.
3.Additional civil rights laws don’t get written because the people who want them written don’t sit down and try to do it. Look, I’ve got my thing. I help black youth find themselves, build self esteem and accept responsibilty for what happens to them. If your thing is writing laws, get some lawyers together and do that. When I need help with my youth, I beg, borrow and bend to get it.
“Just do it”, brother. If you have a dream, make it happen. Don’t sit on the pity pot waiting for more black people to “get it”-you have got to BE it. I don’t expect you to move homeless street kids into your home with a two year old, so conversely you can’t expect me to-in addition to taking in that street kid and working on two black civic boards, to sit down for 3 hours after work making phone calls to lawyers and helping to draft laws. We have all got our part to play. If yours is to write this blog and enlighten young minds, I’ll support that, but don’t poke holes in the work I do that you may feel is crap but that has saved scores of our black youth who genuinely appreciate what I do for them.
4. The chasm IS furthered by this behavior of the corporate world. Can you point out where I say it is inconsequential? But here’s the thing: our beautiful black children are born and bred into hope. By the time they are age five they know what racism is without anyone even having to warn them about it. As a parent it’s my DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY to educate them about that and what it means to be black and American, along with his/her history. But there is a balance that if not calculated properly renders the child hopeless and catatonic or too angry and vitrolic. Those two states of mind and being are the purveying characteristics of what is holding us back as a race; black people that end up saying “Why even try” because of all the speeches they hear about “The Man” or those who live their lives as if white people are an intrusion in this community we have to share with each other. Share means compromise on both parts.
5. The obviously angry tone you use sometimes when you talk about white people is what I was talking about. Dr. King was the master. He could slam the podium and demand change and white people knew he was after change in discriminatory laws and practices and not white hides. That’s so rare today.
Why waste time and energy trying to change a white populace when I have black people that would be more appreciative and helped by my efforts? When I see discrimination along the way, I point that out too.
Again I draw attention to the picture you chose to use to illustrate this post. The whites are angry and aggressive. The black people are quietly insistent and assertive about their rights. Remind me again…who ended up winning that civil rights battle? If we stick to the plan Martin laid down, we’ll win the war, too.
Carlton,
Maybe she is a racist. But without more information it is rather hard to determine. For example, you said that the county is thirty percent black and yet she hired eight black people. But you did not specify what the overall ratio of black workers to white workers in the organization. Is the organization itself thirty percent black or more? Are black people already overly represented and your friend is only adding fuel to the racial disparity? Or were blacks already under represented in the organization and your friend took it upon herself to do something to help restore a proper racial ratio.
You see, when conditions are such that there is a history of racial discrimination, that condition cannot be corrected unless effort is given to restore balance. In order to do that, someone is going to have to take it upon his or her self to hire more black people to restore that balance. While you might see that as some form of reverse discrimination, a perspective that will no doubt protect white interest and continue the status quo of racial discrimination, I see it as trying to correct the history of racial discrimination.
But if white people in your area are already suffering from black people discriminating against them because the vast majority of black people in your area are in positions to further black interests and white people are under represented in positions of authority and are dealing with much higher rates of unemployment, and your friend continues to hire the majority of black people, then yes I would have to reluctantly admit that she might be a racist. So what is the overall ratio of black to white workers in this particular organization? Without more information it’s hard for me to make a determination.
Are you serious? Right here…
All of these statements imply there is no problem. Discrimination is an illusion.
You claimed that white people don’t support other white people. But in your last comment, you made a reference to the Devah Pager study which, as a psychology major with a minor in sociology, you claimed to have known about for years. You claim to have made many references to the study and summed it up as saying that “if the interviewer is white, there’s a better chance the guy hired is gonna be white.” Is this not discrimination and white people supporting each other? Yet, you are constantly making the choice to dismiss this form of racial discrimination, implying quite clearly that it is inconsequential, and focus primarily on defending white interests.
You are constantly dismissing dominant community discrimination against black people. It’s all you’ve done since you’ve been here. You’ll say something like,
When are you honest with white folks? Certainly not in any of the comments you made here.
Now, can you point out where you said that we should confront it and demand changes? That would be a big, resounding no. You never addressed the problem of corporate discrimination. Your focus of condemnation for racial intolerance has been aimed solely and squarely on black people. This is another one of your quotations.
Now we can see your enthusiasm for calling black people out and saying that black people are wrong. Poor white people simply can’t get a break. But where exactly do you address the problems of corporate America? Maybe I missed it. Instead, you’ve given us statements like:
Now I see that you want to dismiss me as nothing but an angry black man with obviously angry tones. If I sound angry it is only because I have a passion for the interests of the black community that many people in the racially generic dominant community want to paint as problematic. It’s never racism that’s the problem, it’s always black people who want to point racism out that’s the problem. And to hear intelligent black people make rather simplistic arguments similar to the best way to fight racism is to ignore it, let it continue and let the disparity against the black community continue is particularly troubling for me.
It would be nice to see you take your own advice some time. One quote from you that I think deserves special attention. It sounds good, but I seriously doubt if you comprehend the depth of what you said.
When are you going to attack the racism from the dominant community of America?
Peace
Carlton banks sez:
“Congratulations, Mr. Shabazz. You are the first person to use a racial slur with me in at least five years. Way to uplift the race you love so much. I live in a county that’s about 70% white (and 25% of those are hardcore rural rednecks) and a guy named Shabazz is the first one in half a decade to treat a “brother” with that much utter disrespect.”
You are NOT my brother. Let’s get that straight first.
Now, I got some other names for you: shill, uncle tom, coon,snake oil salesman, race pimp,race hustler,jive turkey,etc.
People like you, think you’re somehow not the same kind of “Black” as the rest of us, and go out of your way to appease white people at our expense. I’ve had alot of experience with people like you Mr.Banks. No matter how euro educated you think you are, those “white brothers” you love so much will throw you under the bus just as soon as they feel they can’t use you any more,you’ll see.
Here’s an excerpt from one of Brother Malcolm’s speeches:
(I hope this doesn’t offend you Mr. Banks)
In this deceitful American game of power politics, the Negroes (i.e., the race problem, the integration and civil rights issues) are nothing but tools, used by one group of whites called Liberals against another group of whites called Conservatives, either to get into power or to remain in power.
Among whites here in America, the political teams are no longer divided into Democrats and Republicans. The whites who are now struggling for control of the American political throne are divided into “liberal” and “conservative” camps. The white liberals from both parties cross party lines to work together toward the same goal, and white conservatives from both parties do likewise.
The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative.
Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro’s friend and benefactor; and by winning the friendship, allegiance, and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political “football game” that is constantly raging between the white liberals and white conservatives.
Politically the American Negro is nothing but a football and the white liberals control this mentally dead ball through tricks of tokenism: false promises of integration and civil rights. In this profitable game of deceiving and exploiting the politics of the American Negro, those white liberals have the willing cooperation of the Negro civil rights leaders. These “leaders” sell out our people for just a few crumbs of token recognition and token gains. These “leaders” are satisfied with token victories and token progress because they themselves are nothing but token leaders….
The white liberals hate The Honorable Elijah Muhammad because they know their present position in the power structure stems form their ability to deceive and to exploit the Negro, politically as well as economically.
They know that The Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s divine message will make our people (1) wake up, (2) clean up, (3) stand up. They know that once The Honorable Elijah Muhammad is able to resurrect the Negro from this mental grave of ignorance, by teaching him the truth about himself and his real enemy, the Negro will then be able to see and think for himself. Once the Negro learns to think for himself, he will no longer allow the white liberal to use him as a helpless football in the white man’s crooked game of “power politics.”
Let us examine briefly some of the tricky strategy used by white liberals to harness and exploit the political energies of the Negro.
The crooked politicians in Washington, D.C., purposely make a big noise over the proposed civil rights legislation. By blowing up the civil rights issue they skillfully add false importance to the Negro civil rights “leaders.” Once the image of these Negro civil rights “leaders” has been blown up way beyond its proper proportion, these same Negro civil rights “leaders” are then used by white liberals to influence and control the Negro voters, all for the benefit of the white politicians who pose as liberals, who pose as friends of the Negro.
The white conservatives aren’t friends of the Negro either, but they at least don’t try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the “smiling” fox.
The job of the Negro civil rights leader is to make the Negro forget that the wolf and the fox both belong to the (same) family. Both are canines; and no matter which one of them the Negro places his trust in, he never ends up in the White House, but always in the dog house.
The white liberals control the Negro and the Negro vote by controlling the Negro civil rights leaders. As long as they control the Negro civil rights leaders, they can also control and contain the Negro’s struggle, and they can control the Negro’s so-called revolt.
The Negro “revolution” is controlled by these foxy white liberals, by the government itself. But the black revolution is controlled only by God.
Btw- I honestly don’t remember everything from The Autobiography of Malcolm X (I haven’t read the book since high school), but my guess is when he spoke on “white brothers”, he was probably referring to them as his brother in (Islam).
Oh I forgot one more name: Token!
So what’s the difference between a white Muslim and a white human, period? Are white Muslims safe to trust? And if so, are blacks who AREN’T Muslim also unsafe or at the very least not to be trusted? What if a white guy happens to be my brother in Christ? Am I allowed to trust him? Or, are all Christians foxes too? Or maybe just white people can be foxes? I’m not being coy, I’m just trying to figure out how much of the population black people can’t trust. If it’s ALL white people, that means about 60% of the United States. That’s a lot of people to keep your children from dealing with. That means they can never go to Wal-Mart again.
Also, the Muslim “brothers” recently caught in a terrorist plot against this country that you have chosen to remain in despite all it’s animosity against you, are they trustworthy even though your family could have been driving past or walking near that building they were planning to blow? If they are exceptions to the “trustworthy Muslims” rule, then wouldn’t it stand that there are exceptions to the untrustworthy whites rule? If so, it follows we should trust individual white people until proven otherwise, right? Maybe it’s because of my Southern upbringing but I trust anybody of any color until they prove they can’t be trusted.