brotherpeacemaker

It's about our community and our spirituality!

Black Shows By Non Blacks

Jenji Kohan is the creator of the Showtime comedy Weeds.  She was also the executive producer for such shows as My Wonderful Life, Gilmore Girls, Tracey Takes On featuring Tracey Ullman, and the hit comedy Mad About You.  Ms. Kohan was also a writer for such notables as Sex And The City, Boston Common, and The Stones.  But what really caught my attention is that Ms. Kohan added an episode of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air to her list of writing credits.  Ms. Kohan grew up in Los Angeles, California and went to Beverly Hills High School.  From what I’ve been able to tell, Ms. Kohan is not one who has spent a lot of time in the black community.  So I found it rather interesting that she would be writing for a show about a black teenager from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania living with his well to do relatives in Bel-Air, California.

I remember trying to watch a few episodes of the Fresh Prince and I really found it difficult to enjoy the program.  Will was obsessed with the opposite sex and refused to take much of anything seriously.  I can’t remember any of the episodes with one notable exception where Will Smith’s character unimaginatively named Will Smith and the cousin Carlton Banks played by Alfonso Ribeiro, were riding in Carlton’s father’s expensive German automobile in a posh Bel-Air neighborhood at night when they were arrested for being suspicious.  The character Will Smith was familiar with being pulled over and so without waiting to be told he jumped out of the car and assumed the position with his arms splayed across the hood of the car and his legs spread apart ready for the police search.  The two were taken to jail where Carlton’s father, the honorable judge Phil Banks, played by James Avery, quotes law to the police and gets the charges dismissed.

In the final scene Will and Carlton are discussing what happened.  Carlton’s faith in the system is reinforced because he did nothing wrong and he was released without difficulty.  Will’s character doesn’t believe his naïve cousin and tries to school him.  Why were they pulled over in the first place?  Why did they have to go to jail for driving a car that was rightfully theirs?  Would they have been so quickly released if they weren’t related to a judge?  Carlton simply refused to believe, could not even comprehend, that there was a problem with the justice system.

Wow, I thought.  I may have been wrong about this show.  I watched the next episode that aired and was reminded of the oversexed behavior of Will Smith’s character.  Cousin Hillary Banks, played by Karyn Parsons, was an out of touch, status conscious, product of materialism in an almost life like, no hint of parody reenactment of the infamous Paris Hilton.  The butler Geoffrey, played by Joseph Marcell, was borderline belligerent with a quick wit that would not have been tolerated by anyone paying his salary.  And I found the show, with the exception of the one fore mentioned episode, out of touch with black people or any part of the general pool of black experiences.

The brief biography of Ms. Kohan’s work reminded me of my disappointment with television programs aimed at the general black audience.  It wasn’t necessarily from a black perspective.  White people were dictating how black people were being depicted.  With few exceptions, the main black characters of television shows are usually flawed with seriously exaggerated stereotypes of black people’s behavior.  As example, Will Smith’s character Will Smith was made to be so overly focused on sex that he made Rudolph Valentino look like a shy pubescent.

But before there was the character Will Smith there was the materialistic and wealth obsessed George Jefferson, played by Sherman Hemsley on the Jeffersons, who was made to be the epitome of a black man lifting himself up by his own bootstrap and not relying on any assistance.  There was the gold digger Sandra Clark played in such expertly buffoonish fashion by Jackee Harry in 227.  There is the belligerent maid Florence Johnston on The Jeffersons played by Marla Gibb.  There is the clownish, flamboyant, and always wise cracking James “J.J.” Evans, Jr. of Good Times.  And then there’s the infamously well known junkyard entrepreneur Fred G. Sanford of Sanford and Son played by Redd Foxx.  The only thing the characters on this show lacked was the blackface makeup.  Otherwise it would make a fine updated example of the villainously racially maligning minstrel show.

These characters, and plenty more just like them, have laid the foundation for many white people’s understanding of the black community.  White people like Ms. Kohan know how to write television shows that appeal to the majority of the racially generic mainstream American culture who are predominantly white.  Generally speaking members of the dominant community watching television must have really enjoyed seeing black people acting exactly the way people think black people act.

Intelligent black characters fully embracing their ethnicity and created in a way that is sensitive to the black experience are not regularly depicted on television shows.  And it is funny because when an effort is made to bring attention to this issue, black people defend the current system that gives us such notable buffoons as Martin Lawrence, the Wayans family, Keenen and Kal, Monique, Wanda, and the like.  People pop out of the woodwork to keep the current system as is.

The dominant culture is depicted in shows like Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond, and Mad About You.  These are shows featuring white people developed by white people for white people.  Black culture is depicted in shows like Martin, Everybody Hates Chris, and My Wife And Kids.  These are shows featuring black people developed by white people for white people.  If you don’t recognize the difference between the two sets then people like Ms. Kohan have really done their job well.  The idea of black people freely depicting the black experience without the influence of having to adhere to other’s idea of what the black experience entails is not the common way of producing shows.  In fact, it’s pretty rare.

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - Posted by brotherpeacemaker | African Americans, Black Community, Black Culture, Black Men, Black People, Life, Racism, Thoughts | | 17 Comments

17 Comments »

  1. Hey, somebodies got to do it! Is the famous line that you hear when someone wants to justify black people acting like buffoons and such. When in reality NO ONE HAS TO DO IT. And if we stick to this thought we can get the shows we want.

    I have seen commercials for that Keenan and Kal crap and it looks like it is nothing more than an updated version of Amos n Andy. Hopefully one day we will ALL wake up and realize that this crap is ridiculous.

    Thanks

    Comment by theblacksentinel | Thursday, March 12, 2009 | Reply

  2. I’ve read something along these lines from a Bell Hooks book at some point. I agree with you for the most part, however, Martin is a classic in my eye. I guess it would be fine if it were balance, but there isn’t any.

    What about the show Girlfriends? I guess many of them appear in stereotypical roles.

    Joan – the black woman too successful to get a man.
    Toni – the black woman too concerned about money, who even marries a white man in the pursuit of it
    Maya – the ghetto black woman
    Lynn – the loser, free-loading black woman

    …sooo yea.

    Comment by Jamel | Thursday, March 12, 2009 | Reply

  3. Calling these character portrayals buffoonish is too extreme. Believe it or not, in a lot of cases, it is art imitating life. The world is a lot bigger that you want to view it brother.

    Comment by agent_jack | Thursday, March 12, 2009 | Reply

  4. Brother Peacemaker,

    I will apologize in advance for the essay. I feel like I have a lot to say in regards to this topic.

    I completely co-sign and what is sad is that too many in our community are often too brainwashed to wake up and see what is really going on. They have been pacified by these images and have taken everything for face value. Only a few look beneath the surface. I grew up watching television…too much television and it was when I was about 14 years old when I took initiative and turned the TV off. I slowly realized that I did not like what I was seeing. There are a great many shows that I have enjoyed despite the faults but recently it has become increasingly hard to see past them. Too many have failed to realize how such depictions of black people historically have been used to maintain certain social systems.

    These are the same individuals who laugh along with certain black comedians while white people laugh at us. Chris Rock had a stand up piece that he stopped doing when he realized that the white people in the audience were laughing too hard. If only he thought of that before. Didn’t Dave Chapelle have an awakening of some sort? I am not saying that either Rock or Chapelle are all bad but there have been certain aspects of their stand up that has done more to hurt black people. Some also do not know when to stop “joking” as we have seen with the likes of DL Hughley and one of those big headed Wayans brothers (Brother Peacemaker, you covered this). I was at a restaurant/lounge where I live out here in NYC with white co-workers not so long ago. There was a big screen and surprise, Chris Rock was on Larry King. I remember being nervous the entire time because I was scared that he may say something objectionable but it did not come and I was happy despite one of my white co-workers thinking it was cute to mention one of her favorite lines from a Chris Rock show she attended which was offensive and degrading to black women as I sat there. I imagined that she thought it was okay because another black person said it. Why should I have to feel this way? Why should I have to deal with this?

    Look what CNN did with DL Hughley. Though his show got canceled, why would they put a black comedian (who I do not like for his audacity to disrespect and degrade black women on television) on a serious news network instead of passing the mic to a serious black individual who would actually have a real and balanced opinion on real issues in the first place? It goes back to this idea of representation without real representation.

    Many black people are also able to separate what they see on television from their own identity and humanity but have entirely failed to realize how non-black people are unable to or even how our young people are unable to. Many have taken it upon themselves to imitate this “art” (pun intended and directed toward agent jack) There is a classic quote from Drylongso a book that came out in the 1980s where a women (I am trying to recall it) pretty much says that (and I am paraphrasing) that the difference between us and white folks is that we know when we are playing. So many people in our society are introduced to black people and black society at large through media. This goes for not just black people but for all groups. This is why amongst some black organizations and activists in the past, there was talk of image control and resistance from the black community towards these images as early as the turn of the century.

    What you brought up is very important because so many have failed to realize that a great many shows that have been produced featuring black characters have been produced, written and/or promoted by whites. Girlfriends, which Jamel mentioned, was produced by Kelsey Grammar and while I did enjoy the show at times, it presented every single stereotype about black women imaginable. It become hard to ignore after a while. I could not tolerate Toni. It was Good Times where the white producers killed off the father because they found it hard to depict a strong and intact black family even more so, a strong black man/father figure. They also chose to make JJ the focus when he was not supposed to be the focus when the show was originally put together. I do at times enjoy Good Times but certain aspects are hard to look over. I read something a while ago about how so much of the show was written by white writers and how some of the cast members began to get annoyed especially the actress who played the mother who eventually left the show.

    It is not about only presenting one image but enough images because we are a diverse community and the fact that there are white writers writing for black characters speaks to the deeply imbedded issues in regards to our representation in media. One must ask, how well do these individuals understand and know black people to the point where they can construct actual characters and not only dialogue but in an environment where black people are the subjects?

    Comment by rhondacoca | Friday, March 13, 2009 | Reply

  5. What–Keenan wasn’t black enough? Will Smith was oversexed?

    And I thought Lil John was being metaphorical when he said he was gonna put me to the window, to the wall… Skeet Skeet Skeet Skeet! PLEASE!

    You criticize an obviously versatile writer (to have worked on so many successful shows) for not discussing the black experience in as great a detail as you would like, and your only example of this lack of detail is an entire episode about racial profiling in which the (supposedly) sex-obsessed Will Smith attempts to teach his uninformed cousin about the hidden truths of racial profiling? Somebody call the logic police, because you are just not making sense!

    Regardless of the fact that Fresh Prince was a comedy, it was also a show about the growing black middle and upper class, and how they needed to be reminded of their roots; this, comedically of course, was the role very well-played by an erstwhile young brother FROM PHILLY, Will Smith. That he retained the same name is just icing on the chocolate cake–using humor and street smarts, Will humanized his family members and reminded them of where they came from. How DARE you criticize a show with good morals, good comedy, and no g-damn cross-dressing grandmamas threatenin’ to beat up ho’s. For shame!

    You think that Rock, Chappelle, Smith, Lil John, P Diddly, or any of those fools can do anything to us that we haven’t already done to ourselves??? They’re walking on eggshells, man; 7 out of 10 black babies born out of wedlock, 7 out of 10 single mothers, SEVEN OUT OF TEN. High crime, disdain for education, mass truancy from schools, shitty jobs, and WILL SMITH is who you blame??? You need to take the log out yo eye, man, because neither Will, nor whoever this writer chick is, have anything to do with the problems we as a community face today, and that’s a fact.

    Comment by Dawgstyle | Monday, March 16, 2009 | Reply

    • Thanks for the feedback Dawgstyle,

      But if the previous comment you made regarding my article Fight Black With Black is any indication, you’re obviously someone who is conservative and is prone to defend the racial status quo. You’re the type of person who uses the technique of slicing and dicing the statements from others into constituent parts instead of looking at the entire whole. I would expect nothing less from someone who embraces dominant community lifestyle so completely and blames black people for not pulling the black community up by the bootstraps.

      The point isn’t that Keenean or Will Smith wasn’t black enough. The point is that they were too much the epitome of a what non black people think black people are like. And there is little to counter this perception. You describe the writers as being versatile. I beg to differ. The character development is typically one dimensional and the scenarios are often preposterous. The argument that it is comedy therefore it is acceptable is rather weak. The minstrel shows that had black people in black face rolling their eyes in typical coon fashion was comedy as well. But knowing your take on things you probably consider that versatile writing with character portrayals that were just black enough.

      Yes there are statistics that say that the number of babies born out of wedlock is growing. But the number of babies born to single mothers in other racial community is growing as well. Those communities don’t suffer the impact that the black community does. Other communities have disdain for education, mass truancy from schools and still find jobs when there are jobs to find. So why is it just a problem for the black community?

      Your rather simple minded perception that the buck stops at Will Smith is truly ludicrous. You insist on looking at the tree instead of backing up and looking at the big picture that encompasses the forest of disparity against the black community.

      Peace

      Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 | Reply

  6. Brother Peacemaker,

    It is obvious that people like Dawgstyle are not thinkers. People in this society just love negative statistics when it comes to black people. I love how they overlook the many signs of progress. Nonetheless here goes…

    Ta-Nehisi Coates not once but several times has shown that out of wedlock rates where actually higher in the black community in the 1960s. That is if you look at the number of out-of-wedlock births per 1,000 and not the statistical number. The reason why the statistical number is higher is because when one is analyzing such a stat, they must look at the variables that effect that stat such as the amount of children being born to married couples. In the black community, married couples are having less children. This is actually what is effecting the 70% stat and not any increase in out of wedlock births. Algernon Austin (of the Thora Institute) also discusses this.

    Black poverty has decreased rapidly over the last 40-30 years. The reason why it is still to high (22.5-25%) is because black people due to this country’s history of oppression started at a lower economic place.

    More black students are graduating from institutions of higher learning than ever before. One must look at the reasons why there is a disparity in regards to educational attainment and retention. One must ask, what kind of institutions are these particular students attending and how is the enviornment and administration?

    I was visting ym parents this weekend and saw a neighbor of mine after not seeing her for about 4 years. She told me that she was a teacher at a school in the South Bronx. She not only went on to call the school a….”shithole” but she also called the students “pieces of shit” and declared that she wanted to work for the Tuckahoe school district (a mostly white school district)and did not get the job so she could now care less about the mostly minority (black and Latino) fourth graders she is put to teach. This was disheartening. Latino students have the same high school drop out rate as black students and out here in NY, both groups go to the same schools in the same neighborhoods.

    I agree with you DawgStyle, is looking to actively preserve and protect the racial status quo.

    Comment by rhondacoca | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 | Reply

  7. Surely this is true, but I do think that there should be no black or white shows, shows should have black and whited on them in equal amounts. also, look at the modern tv shows, alot of them depict whites as dorky and dumb.LOL. TV MAKES ALL OF US LOOK BAD AT TIMES :) look at “that 70’s show” or “even steven” or that one show with the two white girls and a black girl..the two wite girls look stupid and the black girl is the only one with sense. :0

    Comment by joe | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 | Reply

    • Thanks for the feedback Joe,

      Yes we should simply have television shows regardless of the color of people’s skin. But how many shows of quality feature all white major actors compared to the number of quality black shows? How many movies of quality feature an all white cast compared to the number that feature an all black cast? But anyone who points out this disparity along racial lines is part of the problem. We should all pretend that everything is okay and this disparity doesn’t need our attention because we’re all human. You don’t want anybody to accuse you of any status quo crap because you’re a human. Black people are human too and we deserve just as much representation as white people. I can’t pretend that nothing is wrong because we are all human. People like to say that they don’t care about color. But by every social measure black people lag behind their white counterparts.

      In these troubling times, unemployment is running something like 8% give or take a point or two. I also saw a statistic that said that the white unemployment rate was about 7.3% while the black unemployment rate was 13.4%. We might be all human. But somehow the black community is always hit hardest and suffers longest. If we’re all human and there is no disparity I would expect the two numbers to be much closer. You might not notice the color of somebody’s skin. But certainly somebody does. And I’m not about to pretend that these people do not exist simply because we are all human. Racial disparity is alive and well. People who pretend it is something of the past are part of the problem. How can we fix anything when people like yourself who probably mean well refuse to acknowledge the problem. You are very much a racial status quo zombie.

      Peace

      Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 | Reply

  8. And please nobody accuse me of that staus quo crap, im a human, not a zombie that is spiritually enslaves by a staus quo. i dont care about the status quo im just speaking my mind.. i could care less what color you are…ok friends?..friends!

    Comment by joe | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 | Reply

  9. The only thing that i think dawgstlye said that made sense to me is that we all are given a life by god(or whoever you believe in) its up to us to make it as good as possible. we all blackor white, face opposition, whitedoesnt equal easy, and black doesnt equal more burden. we all have unique situations so non of this can apply to everyone. SO who cares if the author was wrong. ther is a book “stuff white people like” that is actaully written by white people andd it puts us down racially. All comedies make everybody look stupid, thats what they are for. whether they say blacks are sex crazy, or whites are flighty looser dorks who cant fight to save thier life, its all equally as wrong is it not? And you all are silly because this is a computer, you have limited comunication. You think that you can e=read a statement and say” oh i know what hes like, I know exactly what he is” and the truth is that you cant say that because you are assuming this whole persons character based off of a comment on a computer, What ignorance!AS far as the black ulture, most black kids these days dont even have black culture, they imitate the medias idea of black culture.Im still trying to figure out what this mysterious culture is. Why not write an article or direct me to an article to find out. What is white culture, explain it. I dont think there is any. I think there is hood culture, and many people think that all black people have hood culture, which is stupid. But think about it most black people dont know what “orisa” is and could care less where there great great great great great grandpa was from. I dont care where mine was from. I think we all have problems, you know. mine are not more important than yours, and visa versa. I think we are the same, we just dey it so we can argue. anyway. peace out im leaving for good before im accused of supporting the status quo, and being in the klan, and lynching brown human beings, or genicide in africa, or assainating martin luther king, you all can yell about stupid kid shows and everything related to it and ect . Feel free to coment reeaaally harshley and rudely behind my back because I know somebody will NOTE: Im not adressin you brotherp in specific so dont take personal offense. So, seeing that I veiw all of this a nonsense, I am not a valuable, contributing member to this blog, so i dont need you to tell me that,I prefer the black sentinels blog. Oh wait i cant say that or you will pressure her to be mean to white people because if a cracker appreciates something it must be against black people, so forget i said that and please dont write an article on her castrating the blacks just b/c a honkey likes her blos. you probly wont even publish this because its a different opinion and youll just say “oh its for the status quo” so i will leave respectfully. Bye good luck with the argueing and keyboard wars. I

    Comment by joe | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 | Reply

    • Joe,

      It’s funny because some people read books to learn who people are all the time. But reading a computer screen can be dismissed because somehow the words on a screen don’t have the same impact as the words on paper. People read the Christian bible and confess they know all that is humanly possible to know about god. But reading about racial disparity is nothing because we can’t understand how people feel with nothing but words. I would say that’s a load of crap. People simply chose not to understand. An opposing position can be clear as day and people will profess confusion in order to support their own position.

      White does not mean easy. No one ever said it does so I really don’t know where that attitude comes from. What white does mean is that there is not the lingering social disparity that comes from being black. If you would bother to read the subject instead of trying to learn my character you would understand. I’m not trying to get to know you and I certainly don’t want everyone on the internet to know me. I am not the subject here. The subject is the continuation of racism in all of its forms.

      “AS far as the black [culture], most black kids these days [don't] even have black culture, they imitate the [media's] idea of black culture. [I'm] still trying to figure out what this mysterious culture is. Why not write an article or direct me to an article to find out.”

      You are so busy trying to learn my character that you admit to understanding the problem here. Too many black people are spending way too much time imitating the idea of black culture presented to the public through television and other media. And all too often these concepts of what it means to be black have been developed by white people who have their own impression of what it means to be black. Ergo, the black community continues to be defined by white people. It is not rocket science. This is the problem of the black community. You want to know examples of black culture? Go see A Raisin In The Sun.

      What is white culture? It is St. Patrick’s Day. It is the United States Senate where 99% of the people are white. It is the board room of corporate America. It is Christmas with a Santa Claus, probably of German descent. It is the Pope and the Catholic church. It is Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin. It is Norman Rockwell paintings with white people depicted as living typical lives. It is the Andy Griffith Show and Happy Days and the Golden Girls. It is Wall Street. It is the all American boy and girl. It is country music. It is the FLDS. It is the Quakers. It is Good Housekeeping. It is monster truck rallies and motorcycle races and the Indianapolis 500. It’s FAO Schwarz. It’s the Food Channel. Let me know if you need more examples.

      You made another interesting point. Why don’t more black people know more about African spirituality? Because black people have been trained to shun African culture and spirituality in favor of more European culture and spirituality. My own family thought I was offending god because I made the choice to practice something other than European spirituality. There are a number of articles on this blog about my African tradition. How many have you bothered to read since you insist on knowing something about it?

      If you’re leaving then that’s by your own volition. Yes you support the status quo but nobody has accused you of being in the klan or lynching black or brown people. In typical dominant community member fashion you take criticism of the status quo to the extreme and want to assume that somebody is trying to paint you as the epitome of white racist. Poor white people being victimized by black people who don’t realize white people are really trying to help the black community by ignoring the problem of racial disparity. Black people don’t understand that white people see us as equals who have to contend with higher unemployment, pay disparity, fewer educational opportunities, and etcetera.

      “I prefer the black sentinels blog. Oh wait i cant say that or you will pressure her to be mean to white people because if a cracker appreciates something it must be against black people, so forget i said that and please dont write an article on her castrating the blacks just b/c a honkey likes her blos. you probly wont even publish this because its a different opinion and youll just say ‘oh its for the status quo’ so i will leave respectfully.”

      That was respectful? That really sounded like crap and a slam. But in typical white privilege fashion because you say it was respectful that makes it so. If the comment above was an indication of your respect then the black community really is in trouble. I thought you were simply oblivious. However, it appears you’ve let your facade slip and manifested your true colors. You probably are a ku klux kloset member.

      For your information there are a number of people who visit this blog on a regular basis who tell me they are white. We don’t always see things eye to eye. And they never tried to lay down the racist spin you like to throw. If theblacksentinel is your thing that’s between you and her. I’m sure she’ll breath a lot easier knowing she has a fan in you. But I’m pretty sure your love of humanity will eventually wear away and you’ll make another one of your special brand of respectful comments and you’ll become the racist ass that you truly are.

      Peace

      Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 | Reply

  10. Brother Peacemaker seems quite content with making enemies here… i leave for a few days, and look what trouble he’s been causing…

    [The rest of this comment has been deleted]

    Comment by Dawgstyle | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 | Reply

    • Listen up Scooby-Don’t,

      The only reason you appear on this blog is through my good graces. I choose who will appear here. You think you’re my enemy? Fine. We’re at war. So why in the hell would I give you an opportunity to slam me on my own blog? That is like me letting you in my house so you can trash the place. My enemies are not welcome here. Ergo, you’re just going to have to run along like a good puppy. I’m no longer in the mood for your less than helpful babble. Gone for a few days? I beg your pardon. You’re gone for life!

      Peace

      Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 | Reply

  11. This guy ‘joe’ seems rather cavalier in his attitudes. Sounds like he fits in the 16-19 year-old demographic. Why? Because, you can tell his thoughts have a large influence by modern public schooling system and media. How? They preach individualism, meaning that everyone is the same, and has the same chances. This is a blatant fallacy.

    You can also tell that his thoughts were formulated independently within a limited experiential viewpoint. His concepts have been left uncritiqued and there is a mild arrogance embedded in his “consummate” ideas. If he had taken the time to do a little more investigation, he would discover quickly that many of his arguments could be dismantled with very little effort. And that opposing, valid, factual arguments are pervasive.

    Comment by Jamel | Thursday, March 19, 2009 | Reply

  12. I agree with Jamel, do not bother with Joe. His arguments are elementary at best and he is over at the Black Sentinel faking as if he is some biracial man named Gabriel. Yes, Joe, I picked up on that.

    Comment by rhondacoca | Thursday, March 26, 2009 | Reply

    • Thanks for the feedback rhondacoca,

      Not only is he Gabriel on theblacksentinel’s site, he’s also Johann. Dude thinks he’s pulling the wool over people’s eyes or suffers some serious multiple personality disorders. The problem is that there isn’t much of a personality difference between his character.

      Peace

      Comment by brotherpeacemaker | Thursday, March 26, 2009 | Reply


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