Comments on: American Whiners http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/american-whiners/ It's about our community and our spirituality! Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:36:02 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Mike Lovell http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/american-whiners/#comment-3951 Mike Lovell Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:28:48 +0000 http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/?p=1462#comment-3951 Black Sentinel- Very true. I can see your ratios on the loan problems. As for people taking out too much of a house, not so much the fault of the reader, but of the banks that told them they could afford a million dollar home, when in actuality with previous credit standards and standard 30 yr loans the house they could actually afford a house half the value. As you said, the lenders, believing just as much that the housing bubble wouldnt burst, were pumping out loans to raise their own commisions or win intercompany contests, whatever their motivation. The borrowers who took those now infamous "interest-only" loans, I don't know how smart that was, as it seems pointless to make small payments while never building equity, only to be forced into bigger payments later. But yes, job losses play a pretty big role as well. Black Sentinel-
Very true. I can see your ratios on the loan problems. As for people taking out too much of a house, not so much the fault of the reader, but of the banks that told them they could afford a million dollar home, when in actuality with previous credit standards and standard 30 yr loans the house they could actually afford a house half the value. As you said, the lenders, believing just as much that the housing bubble wouldnt burst, were pumping out loans to raise their own commisions or win intercompany contests, whatever their motivation. The borrowers who took those now infamous “interest-only” loans, I don’t know how smart that was, as it seems pointless to make small payments while never building equity, only to be forced into bigger payments later.
But yes, job losses play a pretty big role as well.

]]> By: theblacksentinel http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/american-whiners/#comment-3924 theblacksentinel Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:32:33 +0000 http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/?p=1462#comment-3924 Mike, I don't know if I could say that our youth is weaker than those of yesteryear. Because the same could be said of those from yesteryear. Could they survive in our atmosphere right now. The violence, video games and high stress to achieve? I doubt it. There was a lot less pressure on the people back then. So each time has their pros and cons. I do believe that given no choice that anyone from today could carry on the life of their predecessors. It is a matter of necessity. Right now their is no reason to do manual labor so of course people become complacent to it. Now I personally don't put the blame squarely on the borrower because of "reading". I know that even reading the papers you would have to have knowledge beyond that of the lay person to understand. Not to mention if they asked questions do you think that they would get an explanation that would actually educate them? I think those folks doing the substandard loans were only interested in getting the most loans done as possible. The people that were being preyed upon were just happy to have a loan given to them. Also, the fallacy that people were taking on homes that were far out of their price range is overstated. I believe that the people got homes within the price range of what they qualified for. If the bank tells you that you can afford a half a million dollar home then you probably believed that you could. The problems came when people believed that the housing bubble would never burst. That nothing would ever come of those variable rate loans. That somehow they would never rise above the low 6% that they had stayed for so long. Not to mention the fact that almost 500,000 jobs have been lost and that has to play a role in people being unable to afford their homes. I just think that there is a lot more to what happened than a bunch of non reading fools who wanted to spend too much and a bunch of overzealous lenders. I think that maybe 30% is of the loan problem was created by idiot non readers, another 30% to overzealous loans and the rest was due to loss of jobs. Mike,

I don’t know if I could say that our youth is weaker than those of yesteryear. Because the same could be said of those from yesteryear. Could they survive in our atmosphere right now. The violence, video games and high stress to achieve? I doubt it. There was a lot less pressure on the people back then. So each time has their pros and cons. I do believe that given no choice that anyone from today could carry on the life of their predecessors. It is a matter of necessity. Right now their is no reason to do manual labor so of course people become complacent to it.

Now I personally don’t put the blame squarely on the borrower because of “reading”. I know that even reading the papers you would have to have knowledge beyond that of the lay person to understand. Not to mention if they asked questions do you think that they would get an explanation that would actually educate them? I think those folks doing the substandard loans were only interested in getting the most loans done as possible. The people that were being preyed upon were just happy to have a loan given to them.

Also, the fallacy that people were taking on homes that were far out of their price range is overstated. I believe that the people got homes within the price range of what they qualified for. If the bank tells you that you can afford a half a million dollar home then you probably believed that you could. The problems came when people believed that the housing bubble would never burst. That nothing would ever come of those variable rate loans. That somehow they would never rise above the low 6% that they had stayed for so long. Not to mention the fact that almost 500,000 jobs have been lost and that has to play a role in people being unable to afford their homes.

I just think that there is a lot more to what happened than a bunch of non reading fools who wanted to spend too much and a bunch of overzealous lenders. I think that maybe 30% is of the loan problem was created by idiot non readers, another 30% to overzealous loans and the rest was due to loss of jobs.

]]> By: Mike Lovell http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/american-whiners/#comment-3919 Mike Lovell Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:05:31 +0000 http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/?p=1462#comment-3919 As per the loans, I think for 90% of the bad loans (my opinion, not a statistic) were the fault of either the borrower (for not reading) or both borrower and lender (former not explaining properly, or outright lying for his/her commission, the latter again for not reading, or just being plain greedy about keeping up with the Joneses). I wouldn't dare to presume it to be the faults of blacks, as it is of the specific people, regardless of color. Those who presume its a black borrower-created proble is nothing short of ignorant. As for America turning into a nation of whiners, while I disagree with Mr Graham's particular subject matter, I would say that as technology has increased and made life overall easier to accomplish tasks, we as people have devolved in our strengths. Our parents, grandparents, so on and so forth, have been progressively stronger individuals physically and mentally as to what they could handle (with relatively little complaint compared to today's people [mainly youth]). Race aside, I'd challenge any of today's youth to perform the physical tasks and take on the mental/emotional challenges of our predecessors. I'm afraid we'd fail miserably, and that is my opinion as a member of today's youth (age 29). Off subject, but I thought the subject of whiners was apt for my example. As per the loans, I think for 90% of the bad loans (my opinion, not a statistic) were the fault of either the borrower (for not reading) or both borrower and lender (former not explaining properly, or outright lying for his/her commission, the latter again for not reading, or just being plain greedy about keeping up with the Joneses). I wouldn’t dare to presume it to be the faults of blacks, as it is of the specific people, regardless of color. Those who presume its a black borrower-created proble is nothing short of ignorant.
As for America turning into a nation of whiners, while I disagree with Mr Graham’s particular subject matter, I would say that as technology has increased and made life overall easier to accomplish tasks, we as people have devolved in our strengths. Our parents, grandparents, so on and so forth, have been progressively stronger individuals physically and mentally as to what they could handle (with relatively little complaint compared to today’s people [mainly youth]). Race aside, I’d challenge any of today’s youth to perform the physical tasks and take on the mental/emotional challenges of our predecessors. I’m afraid we’d fail miserably, and that is my opinion as a member of today’s youth (age 29). Off subject, but I thought the subject of whiners was apt for my example.

]]> By: brotherpeacemaker http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/american-whiners/#comment-3884 brotherpeacemaker Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:59:24 +0000 http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/?p=1462#comment-3884 Thanks for the feedback theblacksentinel, But people forget that if this problem stems from the fact that there were irresponsible blacks getting loans weren't there irresponsible lenders making loans? I mean if I was responsible for making home loans don't I have a responsiblity to the people I work for to assure that they will get their money back? I've seen a lot of the same type of comments. Corporate America even targeted the black community for these expensive loans and it is the black community's fault for being a target. Please!! Peace Thanks for the feedback theblacksentinel,

But people forget that if this problem stems from the fact that there were irresponsible blacks getting loans weren’t there irresponsible lenders making loans? I mean if I was responsible for making home loans don’t I have a responsiblity to the people I work for to assure that they will get their money back? I’ve seen a lot of the same type of comments. Corporate America even targeted the black community for these expensive loans and it is the black community’s fault for being a target. Please!!

Peace

]]> By: theblacksentinel http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/american-whiners/#comment-3883 theblacksentinel Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:07:44 +0000 http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/?p=1462#comment-3883 BrotherP, They meaning the dominant community love to point the finger but don't like it pointing back at themselves. Just like any group of people. In fact they will argue that this is totally different because somehow this economy has nothing to do with anything they did or didn't do. When the black communities problems are caused by their lack of responsibility. I have even heard people saying that the trouble plaguing us ALL right now was caused by irresponsible blacks taking loans for houses they knew they couldn't afford. So now even what is plaguing them is our fault. There's taking responsibility for your predicament for you. If this is teaching us anything it's that anyone getting into an impossible economic situation can't rely on bootstraps and the lack of whining to get them out of a jam. Loved this post. It needs to be said and I wish to god that this could reach every white person out there and those blacks who have their fingers firmly and continuously pointed at the black community. BrotherP,

They meaning the dominant community love to point the finger but don’t like it pointing back at themselves. Just like any group of people. In fact they will argue that this is totally different because somehow this economy has nothing to do with anything they did or didn’t do. When the black communities problems are caused by their lack of responsibility.

I have even heard people saying that the trouble plaguing us ALL right now was caused by irresponsible blacks taking loans for houses they knew they couldn’t afford. So now even what is plaguing them is our fault. There’s taking responsibility for your predicament for you. If this is teaching us anything it’s that anyone getting into an impossible economic situation can’t rely on bootstraps and the lack of whining to get them out of a jam.

Loved this post. It needs to be said and I wish to god that this could reach every white person out there and those blacks who have their fingers firmly and continuously pointed at the black community.

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