I know I said I would not speak to you again without the scriptures that show it is OK to kill in “certain” circumstances. But your comments are so ridiculous I just can’t help myself. Reading your replies are like watching a train wreck, you just can’t turn away it is so gruesome.

Whether or not I would kill you is not the point. I would be committing murder and according to YOUR religion I would be committing a sin regardless.

Also, when did I tell you that I personally believed that war is wrong. Calling you on your hypocrisy and showing your arguments to be ridiculous should not confuse you into my personal beliefs. You see I don’t follow a book where killing babies through abortion is immoral but killing your avowed enemies is, when the “good book” says murder is a sin.

I don’t care whether you feel you have the right to kill avowed enemies or not. I think that you should either follow your bible or not. If you are going to start adding addendum’s to your bible then what good is the book and how useful is it in your argument that good Christians don’t agree with abortion. What it says is that you don’t “really” follow your religion or your bible. Because if you did, then YOU would see that it says murder is a sin.

And until you can show me the scripture in your bible that says murder is OK in certain circumstances then you don’t need to ask me anything about murder under this or that circumstance. I am NOT the one standing on the premise that “good Christians” don’t support murder [when conducted as abortion]. That is you. So you need to qualify your stance. I don’t need to qualify it for you.

So for the umpteenth time where is your scripture sir? Or are you going to continue to ignore this in hopes that it goes away so that you can continue to half ass quote what good Christians should or shouldn’t. What is this based on if not your bible? So just admit that a non Christian has more information about your religion than you do. And you can sit back and actually learn something.

Also, anyone who is of sound mind would not want to be called a hypocrite in any way from anyone. Since they would have the good sense to not be the pot calling the kettle black.

Peace

If I kidnapped you and you became my slave, would it be wrong for you to kill the slave master?

You claim it is hypocrisy for me to advocate against pro-abortionists like Obama and yourself while supporting a war that intends to kill our avowed enemies with the hope that innocence doesn’t die?

And your stance is one that supports the intentional killing of YOUR OWN baby brothas and sistas while VOWING to refrain from warring with your avowed enemies because it might kill THEIR innocent children?

Do I have this right? Again, being called a hypocrite by you is a serious compliment.

Again, the end result of any type of killing is death. The method for getting one to that end result is irrelevant. You wish to justify a killing by the means of the killing. Sorry death = death. You don’t have degrees of death. I am not asking you whether or not the justice system will see that particular killing as less wrong because of the circumstances that led to the killing.

Don’t put words into my mouth. If you look at my last reply I said that I support ABORTION. I never said that partial birth abortion is “fine.” I feel that partial birth abortions should be taken on a case by case basis. Not done on any person who feels they want it. I never said that killing anyone is evil and immoral. I am merely pointing out your hypocrisy. You are the one who claims you are a Christian and killing innocent babies is wrong. But then you try and quantify some killing over others by saying they are our avowed enemies and in war that makes it OK.

I am NOT a Christian and don’t recognize any so called “evil” or “immorality” which both are subjective. Your ideal of immoral and evil are certainly not mine. I am trying to make you realize that you can’t have it both ways. Allow killing of innocent children in war, then say abortion is so wrong. Either you are against killing innocent children or not. The question here is NOT if “I” feel that killing innocent children. You raised the issue so deal with the issue.

I unlike you recognize the life of ALL children not just those being aborted in America. You seem to think that only these children deserve to live. It is fine and dandy to kill our avowed enemies children. That is the hypocrisy that I am trying to point out to you. You seem to want to push your views then try and play hot potato with them after you see how ignorant they are. I know that you don’t mind being called a hypocrite seeing as you seem to be totally aware of your hypocrisy.

But really WHERE ARE THE SCRIPTURES TO BACK YOUR STATEMENTS OF KILLING OUR AVOWED ENEMIES CHILDREN IS FINE JUST NOT ABORTION? I have asked you 3 times now and you continue to come back with more hypocritical rhetoric and not one shred of your Christian proof that indeed there are cases where killing is justified in the eyes of god.

I just can’t get it through to you that your whole premise of it is OK to kill those babies there, but not these babies here. How does that make any sense? That is my whole problem with you. You are making no sense. I think this is the last reply to you I have unless you bring your bible scriptures. Because your argument is less than Christian as you have claimed yourself to be.

If in the course of his perceived getaway with my young daughter in tow, I spring from the bushes to deliver a vicious left hook to said pedophile, obliterating the left orbital, which in turn the fatal blow was induced via head bouncing off pavement, I have merely killed this man. Rightly so, of course. This is something different from murder. Certainly you are not so “progressive” as to not recognize the difference?

But that is not a perfect analogy to the particular argument you have, rather, it is the foundation for the understanding that although some can claim killing and murder to have the same meaning, a more nuanced and traditional understanding recognizes their fundamental difference in meaning.

You imply that partial-birth abortion is fine as you support it, but “killing” innocent children in the course of war against our avowed enemies (jihadists) is evil and immoral. And then you have the incredulous task of asserting my hypocrisy? At least I recognize the innocence of those children while you can’t even acknowledge the humaneness of that which dies via sharp instrument in the back of the brain. That which is America’s future progeny. Could anyone mistake that stance for being pro-American or Christian? Being called a hypocrite by you is nothing but a compliment.

How about this? I don’t give a rats ass about the Obama’s and this satire or whatever YOU wish to believe it is. YOU are the one making it an issue. I think it is a magazine cover to me and nothing more. You can think whatever you want. You seem to be really confused as to your beliefs. You now say that you don’t know anything about Obama and partial birth abortion when in fact YOU ARE THE ONE WHO PUT IT IN THIS CONVERSATION!!! Here are YOUR words – “I mean, when was the last time one met a pro-partial birth abortion Christian?”

Murder is murder am I correct? So how can killing here be different than killing there? AGAIN QUOTE ME THE SCRIPTURE WHERE IT SAYS THAT KILLING IN WAR IS ACCEPTABLE AND ABORTION TYPE KILLINGS IN NOT!! You are dodging the questions because you CAN’T validate your beliefs and just like a good Christian if you can’t produce facts just continue to barrage a person with the same old rhetoric over and over.

You talk about how people will try and justify things as killing in war (which by the way you have many times now) and that they back it up with nothing. You are very erratic in your thinking. This is the argument I am using to correct your broken thinking.

If you think that the cover is spot on then *clap* *clap* *clap* for you! Do you want a cookie now? I don’t think you live in a cave I think you are indeed a hypocrite without one shred of evidence to back up what they say. I think that you are truly confused as to what you have been saying. You are agreeing with what I just said that you were doing. Because you have yet to prove there are any scriptures to back up YOUR claim that killing in war with your enemies is acceptable.

In light of the fact that you seem to be scattered in your thinking. I will no longer continue a conversation with you unless you figure out (by re-reading the comments) exactly what it is that you believe and or what it is that you are arguing for or against.

Thanks

It is pretty obvious that you are inclined to believe exactly what the satire of the Obamas is trying to depict. I really didn’t expect anyone would be so inclined as to make this an issue. There is no evidence that Mr. Obama is a Muslim or Ms. Obama hates America. It’s all propaganda designed to make close minded people of rather limited understanding fear that which the Obamas represent. These are the type of people who are more likely to get their news from FOX.

I am no fan of Mr. Obama. But I have to say that I have never heard Mr. Obama advocate partial birth abortions. While this single factor appears very important to you, everyone who defends a woman’s right to control her body is not a Muslim. Abortion is very different than war. Abortion is the termination the potential of life. War is the termination of actual life. But somehow god fearing people, who believe murder is a heinous act, believe the murder of people during war is okay.

There is a lot of talk about fanatical Islam being dangerous. But in all honesty fanatical Islamic believers are no different than fanatical Christian believers. Each will defend whatever they want to believe with a total lack of evidence to back it up. These beliefs will drive these people to justify whatever they do because nothing else matters. The bible says thou shall not kill. But a fanatic will say that there is an unwritten exclusion that says war is okay.

The cover was in fact spot on. People who want to believe the crap about the Obamas are the very people the cover art is trying to impact. Does this mean I live in a cave? In all honesty it really doesn’t matter. People will believe whatever they want despite any proof or claim to the contrary.

Peace

You think all that internet chest-bumping is substitute for intellectual argument?

Is Barack Obama a Christian or Muslim?

I say there is far more evidence of both his Muslimness (his ancestry being the most obvious) and his non-Christianness (advocating for partial-birth abortion).

Are the Obama’s anti-American?

Again, the evidence supports this view. From left-wing ideological stances to a 20-year membership in a radical black church to friendships with some of the most radical elements in our society (Wright, Ayers and Farrakhan), the evidence is convincing.

In addition, we have the statements of Michelle Obama. From being “proud” of America for the “first” time, to America being a “mean” country to suggesting the assassination of her husband at a gas station by some rednecks, Michelle was then forced to “soften” up her image. Meaning, she needed to quit being the “angry black woman” we all could see.

All this stuff is well-known and yet your intellectual stance is to pretend as though you were in a cave while the media rolled out the Obamas. Or, you can just say you like all that radicalness and the cover was spot on?

Give me a break already. You are the one that brought up the abortion. I could care less if he supports abortion, hell I do as well. There was a picture of Bill and Hillary Clinton dressed in African Muslim garb, does this make them Muslims as well? That is just the most ridiculous assertion.

Also, I never said that him being characterized in the magazine is a gross mis-characterization. I think you need to go back and re-read who said what. I spoke to you about what proof you have. Whether or not he is or is not a Muslim is beside the point. I don’t believe he is one. But to play the devils advocate here what if he is, then what? What does that mean? Are you somehow saying that being a Muslim is a crime? Because if you are suggesting that him being a Muslim makes him unfit or that you HAVE to be a Christian in order to hold office then you my friend are the same type of bigot that Christians constantly claiming are working to silence your hypocritical religion. Remember what this country stands for? FREEDOM! Of religion being one of them.

Like I said before there IS NO ACCIDENTAL KILLING IN WAR!! Damn can’t you get it? They are killing people because it is a war. And you are a sick person if you are going to tell me that it is OK to kill a child in war but not in medical facilities. God does NOT talk about these so called avowed enemies in the bible. Why don’t you enlighten me with the verses from the bible that say that it is morally just to kill people in the attempt to kill your avowed enemies?

You are a hypocrite and don’t have a moral leg to stand on. You are through in my book. You have NO credibility. I am serious I need you to quote me the scripture that tells good Christians that it is OK to kill but only in war. I thought your ten commandments said THOU SHALT NOT KILL! They didn’t say thou shalt not kill with a side note saying unless you are fighting your avowed enemies then it is morally and spiritually OK.

Like I said before you and any other Christian who believes that it is OK to kill in war are nothing more than morally bankrupt individuals picking and choosing what you believe in the bible. Prove what you are saying by giving me the bible versus that talk of abortion being wrong and war killing being justified. I don’t have a problem being called a liberal, but at least I am not a hypocrite.

Sorry, but you are all over the place. This post was about Obama and The New Yorker cover. You want to claim that Obama is a pro-partial birth abortion “Christian” and the cover of him in the turbin is a gross mischaracterization. But, WHAT is YOUR PROOF that Obama is a Christian and NOT a Muslim and hence the claim that the cover represents a gross micharacterization? Furthermore, the cover characterized Michelle as a radical-leftist. Again, what is your proof that this a gross mischaracterization?

Secondly, if you can’t differentiate between the gruesome PURPOSEFUL killing of one’s own flesh and blood and the accidental killing of innocent children in the course of destroying our avowed enemies then you my friend must be a modern liberal?

I never said anything about being mad at the perpetuation of smears on the Obamas. I personally think you are dodging the issue which was to show me the well known pastors who don’t support war or more precisely this criminal war in Iraq. But instead you talk about things I never said in an attempt to get off the topic at hand. I am asking you what is different about partial birth abortion and war killing pregnant women, babies and people in general. You can’t answer so you deflect with a bunch of finger pointing propaganda I never spoke about. Good one, but it doesn’t work with me.

I don’t care one rats ass about any well known Christian and probably couldn’t name many if you paid me. That is not the issue for me. You claim that Christians hate partial birth abortion and would NEVER sanction it. But, now you want to tell me that somehow killing in war is acceptable and killing in medicine never is. You hypocrite! There is NO difference in how a person was murdered. The infant, baby or child is still dead arent’ they? Someone’s future progeny is murdered aren’t they? So how is one more acceptable than another in your world. In my world death is death and you can’t have it both ways.

There is NO such thing as an accidental killing in WAR. You are going there WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF KILLING. So to me if I am going to call for the end to infanticide it doesn’t matter HOW it is occurring it must be stopped. You can sit there in your shroud of hypocritical better than thou stupidity all the while sanctioning one form of MURDER while trying to chastise another. You supposed Christians are the epitome of hypocrisy. Killing is killing you will never be able to explain to god that somehow killing in a war was OK because they are your enemies. But killing for medicine is worse because I say so. Get real. Good luck at the pearly gates because you will need it hypocrite.

Just remember when you go down the road of one killing is more heinous than another you lose ALL credibility. I can make a case as to why partial birth abortion is better than a sexually driven murder of an infant using your logic. So you have absolutely no moral leg to stand on now.

Goodbye, you ARE the weakest link!

You chimed in about the cover of The New Yorker and basically gave the left-wing spin that the cover was a satire meant to ridicule the right-wing caricature of the Obamas. What you don’t explain is WHY those very same left-wingers are so MAD at your OWN attempted left-wing propaganda? You claim that your outrage is the result of the perpetuation of the lies and smears being told about the Obamas. So I have you a challenge? Name the lies being told by this cover?

Afterall, I’m not really sure WHAT you are taking issue with because you haven’t rebutted my actual statements, namely, there are NO other well known “Christians” that advocate for partial-birth abortion. In fact, to support the infanticide of your future progeny seems far more heinous a moral failing then taking a war to your avowed enemies and in the course of such action killing (not murdering) innocent children. Or, are you of the understanding that advocating for partial-birth abortion is far less morally corrupt than the accidental killing of innocent children in the course of war?

Anyhow, why don’t you show proof? I don’t need to since they are asserting that they are indeed Christian. Go to a Christian church, were married in a Christian church, NEVER attended any mosques or otherwise participate in Muslim things. That should be evidence enough. For one thing a Muslim is NOT going to play the role of a Christian for any reason, that is against their religion. Just like I am sure you won’t play the role of a Muslim or would you?

I don’t know if they are loving patriots. But they haven’t shown me anything to the contrary. You talk about this as if you know them first hand and have had then tell you personally that they ARE indeed Muslims and hate America. If they did then that would be different. But we both know that they did no such thing. So lay out your proof. Since you seem to think you have so much.

How about I tell you all the well known “so called” Christian who sanction murder! Every preacher the right wing has stumping for it from Rod Parsley to Pat Robertson to Kenneth Copeland and all the rest. Are saying that the Iraq war is good for our country. Now you tell me the difference between partial birth abortion and an infant getting killed in his/her mothers arms with one of our soldiers bullets or our bombs. Better yet tell me the difference between our bombs and guns killing a pregnant Iraqi woman and partial birth abortion? Not a damn thing. At least not in gods eyes, I am sure. You see you can’t sit and sanction the killing of gods children by one means and then cry about killing them some other way.

The majority of these Christian right leaders are a bunch of phony losers anyway. Since Obama didn’t say he agreed with it he said that if it was medically necessary then people should have access to it. And the fallacy that you liars would have people believe is that people are just lining up for partial birth abortions when they only do them on women when it is life or death for her. Not to mention you and your little Christian faction all talk about hating abortion but if your sister or wife were raped by some “crazy Muslim” I doubt very seriously if you would be that opposed to it then.

I am waiting for your proof and while your at it why don’t you tell me all the well known preachers on the right who have said that the Iraq war is wrong.

You’re not being serious, are you? I’m ignorant because I don’t believe the Obama’s are Christian loving American patriots? And you are outraged by the satire DESPITE all the evidence of such radical dispositions?

There is evidence upon evidence for Barack’s Muslimness, Michelle’s distaste for America, their ties to left-wing anarchists and a family embrace of radical black theology/ideology. All this was satirized in the New Yorker and it backfired because the radical anti-American profile of the Obama’s is dead on and you don’t want other to know.

Please provide evidence to the contrary so as to show how much the Obama’s are really Christian loving America patriots? And then name another well-known “Christian” that sanctions partial-birth abortion while you collecting that other evidence?

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. What religion are all the doctors, nurses and abortion seekers? Who knows, but I bet the majority of them call themselves Christian.

“Why are we to believe that he associated with his father’s blackness and NOT his Muslimness?” My parents are Christian and I don’t associate with that religion. So I guess it is pretty easy for a child especially one that really has no contact with that parent to NOT practice their religion.

What proof do you have that John McCain actually loves America even though on several occasions he said that he didn’t “truly” love America. Or how about telling us all what evidence that you have that he is indeed a Christian? Would a Christian really want to engage in a war where millions of innocent lives will be lost? Jesus and god are against war, it says that killing is wrong. Can you explain why a good Christian would be involved in going against the bible like that?

You my friend are exactly why the New Yorker did the satire. You and people like you are so mired in your ignorance that you will believe anything you hear.

Thanks