I agree with Deirdre Saoirse Moen’s statement when it came to the under qualified white executive. I am someone who believes that a job needs to be filled with someone who is the best that one can find. If the best worker is white, but has an attitude problem, and a lesser qualified, yet experienced applicant is black, but is great to get along with I would hire the black worker. From this aspect it’s coworker cohesion. The applicant can always learn to work more efficiently, but a bad attitude can be dangerous and sometimes more time consuming intensive than the factory work. Personality goes a long way with me. I have worked with and interacted with blacks a great deal. I don’t know why it is, but it seems to me that the blacks can be easier to work with than whites. One of which was this huge black guy who could driven me into the ground like a tent stake, but instead defended me when I was being put under the thumb of my white comrades. I can’t thank him enough. Even then it all comes down to responsibility. The reason why we have so many laws is because so many people do stupid things that require legal actions to be taken. In an ideal world employers and academic administrators would hire and enroll people based on skill, credentials and personality based on reasonable ideals and not an overt prejudice. What I value most in a worker is dedication, creativity, and personality. I would want to surround myself with cultural, ethnic, academic, and creative diversity.

There are none so empty as those who are so full of themselves. Yours truly.

How does affirmative action have anything to do with a person being less qualified? See that is the problem, you have this belief that blacks who might or might not be receiving affirmative action are somehow less qualified. What about the white person who has a lower score or is less qualified that gets a job over the more qualified black person? Or is that just impossible in your world.

You are right blacks are being discriminated against more than anyone else. That is why they have to sue these racist companies, DUH!! Your mind is about as open as a closed sign. You claim that your stories are true. Please Lynnae, tell me how these so called businesses are giving out personal information about employees such as what is on their resumes, if they did or didn’t finish school, if they do or don’t do their jobs, their attendance records and all the other things you claim with obviously no regards for the law. It is highly illegal to dispense that type of information to others. You are not even allowed to say those things to someone checking references. So how is it that you know all this personal information about all these men who work at all these other companies?

Are white people who work in this industry giving other white mens information out just as easily and without regards to the law? Or is that something that is reserved for blacks only. It sounds to me like all these companies you just named might be practicing some sort of racism indeed.

You keep claiming that more law suits are made from whites discriminating against blacks than the other way around. That is TRUE! Are you going to tell me that there are NO whites discriminating against blacks in the workplace and that every lawsuit out there is frivolous? We know that racism exists and it is more prevalent in the white communities dealings with blacks. Sorry that is the facts of life and if you have a mind above a four year old like you claim then you too would know this to be true.

No one said that there weren’t high powered lawyers out there defending blacks, they deserve representation also. What you said were that there were “very powerful lawyers-providied many times for special groups let them keep their jobs”. What special groups? Name them! I am black and I have been discriminated against many, many times in my working career and not one of these so called “special groups” have sent me any “very powerful lawyer”. In fact not one black person I know and I know LOTS of black people have ever had contact with these “special groups” sending out “very powerful lawyers”.

Is this only in your area and if so, where is that so I can look into it myself. You want to sound credible but you give no specifics and keep making references to things that you can’t prove. I can prove to you that white people lie on their resumes, sleep on the job, are lazy, don’t do good work, are rude to customers, neglect patients and do all the things you claim ONLY these affirmative action blacks are doing.

Have you ever thought that some blacks get jobs without affirmative action? Or is that just too far fetched? You know if blacks are only being hired around you as you say “Many places have to meet a quota when no black employees that are any good apply they must pick from this group and hire an employee”. So basically what you are saying is that in YOUR area white companies don’t hire blacks until they HAVE TO FILL A QUOTA and ALL the blacks they have to choose from are LAZY, UNQUALIFIED and BAD WORKERS. So why are these companies not hiring the best candidate? Why are black candidates not being hired until they have A QUOTA to fill? This sounds terribly racist to me.

Do you listen to yourself? If I were to say that the black owned companies around me only hire whites to fill a quota. And ALL of the white people they have to choose from are LAZY, SHIFTLESS, BAD WORKERS with no qualifications. Would you think that sounds kind of racist or at least terribly incredible? My dear you have a lot of preconceived notions about blacks that you don’t even know. You are just making off the cuff comments that ALL the blacks in your area are somehow worthless. And you don’t see how a black person or anyone else with a brain for that matter would see this as racist?

Get yourself educated because the things that you say are obviously the ramblings of a very ignorant person. At least read what you say and think hard about your comments as they sound extremely racist with a lot of blanket statements about people you could NOT possibly know anything about.

Thanks

Finally you admit that not all black people are lazy and good for nothing. You admit that even though you actually know first hand some black people who do work, you allow your perspective of black people’s character and work ethic to be defined by your husband’s second hand story about the third hand stories from all of the other plants that can’t get the black people they hire to work or your sister’s story about black people at the nursing home being rude to patients and refusing to work but have the muster to chase your sister in groups.

I am sure you are not a four year old. But no matter how old you are your stories carry about as much weight as a four year old’s. You failed to mention the name of these companies that are having such problems with their black employees or the names of the high powered affirmative action law firms in your area that have emergency affirmative action response teams.

I know that it takes a history of racial discrimination and an environment void of racial diversity before any black person could even hope to be taken seriously. But a single white person can claim reverse discrimination against a white company or institution with a history of practicing favoritism for white people simply because the institution finally implements a desire for racial diversity. You claim you know all the candidates’ test scores. This information is not regularly distributed by companies so the fact that you claim to know this information is highly questionable. This simple fact alone makes your story and everyone else who makes the same claims, truly hard to take seriously.

Thankfully, you have made your final, impossible to take seriously, words on this subject.

Peace

I am sorry your story is about as credible as a four year old kid trying to explain how he didn’t break the lamp. Or better yet how about as credible as a 3 dollar bill. You claim that they SAY they will sue, well how about firing them and testing it out.

Where are all these lawyers you talk about? There are no such thing as affirmative action lawyers. And since you are so sure of yourself, please state the case that I can go look at where a black person who was NOT doing their job successfully sued over affirmative action?

Interesting that you cite the fireman story since someone else cited the exact same case which supposedly involved their brother. You people are pathetic. You claim that your sister worked in a nursing home and blacks were not doing their jobs. I worked in a hospital where a fellow nurse who was white was sleeping with men in the hospitals empty rooms. I also worked in a nursing home and I was the only black person there. The white aides that worked their were neglectful to the point I had to quit. So you think black people have a corner on the market of not doing their jobs. You want to add the blacks up to affirmative action, what is the white people’s problem?

And according to you blacks are NEVER qualified. So when you say hire someone on their merits it sounds like you mean just hire white since they do their jobs. When I can see your racially charged stories with racially charged stories of my own. You see I have lived in predominantly white areas for the majority of my life. And I have plenty of stories of lazy, violent, worthless white people that I have worked with. Since I was the only black at the majority of my jobs I have tons of stories and they aren’t about brothers or sisters, they are about me seeing it with my own eyes.

I agree affirmative action was in place LONG before blacks received it. White people such as yourself act as if white people only hiring white people is NOT affirmative action. What do you call it when white people hire whites based solely on their race? AFFIRMATIVE ACTION! So you need to get a bit more education because it sounds like you, your family and friends are woefully lacking in the areas of common sense.

Thanks

Again, you’ll have to excuse my suspicion. Black people who don’t work don’t have access to very powerful lawyers. However, you did mention a reverse discrimination lawsuit. Now that I can believe because white people like yourself are always more than ready to sue some company that wants to try and promote racial diversity. Companies that have a history of keeping black people out will have a change of heart and try to correct the wrong against the entire black community will implement a racial diversity program to help undo the discrimination that is their history. As soon as a company or institution makes it public that it wants to reserve a fraction of the opportunities available for people of color, white people will sue for reverse discrimination.

No white person in any of your stories ever ran across a black person with good character or with a good work ethic. Listen to the hateful propaganda you spew. Black people are lazy. Black people don’t go to work. Black people are dishonest. Black people lie on their resume. Black people are unqualified. I have worked in many companies where there was a lazy, dishonest, white person, who was unqualified for their job. I don’t know if they lied on their resume because I never saw it and I’m not about to embellish my story by lying like you say all black people do. But instead of saying all white people mimic these white people’s behavior I will say that the individual white person has a problem. And there are some white people who excel at their jobs.

You talk about groups attacking your sister. I’m assuming this is the group of lazy black people. All the black workers talk down to patients and yet your sister never saw a white worker talking down to patients because in your world white people never do anything wrong. It is obvious that you are racially prejudice and you, like many white people, have something against black people. It’s always your husband or your sister or your husband’s coworkers or your sister’s coworkers or the white workers at the other plant who always see black people doing wrong but white people are as pure as the driven snow.

But the truth of the matter is that white people like yourself are about as tainted as yellow snow. Your story would sound better if you could recite at least one instance where a company was sued by a lawyer for violating affirmative action programs. It would be more plausible if you could recite the case that has so many companies so afraid of losing a lawsuit for firing black workers or the black person who successfully sued a company because he or she was fired.

But instead, all we will get are stores about how your brother knew a guy who had a cousin whose uncle lost his job because he was the best worker at the plant but management decided to hire a black person and never checked the black man’s credentials to learn that he had lied on his resume and did not know how to do his job and did nothing but sleep at work all day and yelled at the other employees and made them feel bad and the management was too spineless to fire him because every time somebody looked at the black guy he started yelling affirmative action and had his affirmative action lawyer on his cell phone’s speed dial. This racist muck is so easy to spew.

Peace

You will excuse me if I have a hard time believing your story. I have worked with many races of people who were lazy or didn’t do their job in one way or another and they were ALL fired. He can scream affirmative action all he wants and what exactly does that mean? What is it going to do for him? Is there a law that says he CAN’T be fired or something?

Also, how do you account for all the lazy white people in the workforce? I watched a news report on the parks department in Spokane Washington and that place is 90% white. The story was about lazy park workers sleeping on the job in the park. The news cameras went out and filmed them and they were all white. So why are white people in general not now seen as lazy because of these white men?

The answer is that white people see white people as individuals. Meaning that one white person sleeps on the job does NOT mean ALL white people sleep on the job. Yet, you and your loser husband say a black man is sleeping on the job and somehow that has something to do with affirmative action. Now that you found a lazy black man, you can claim it is happening all over the place. This is the racism which keeps affirmative action necessary.

What you should be thinking is that your husband should be looking at the person who hired this man. Because obviously they have a problem with doing a thorough job interviewing people. Has this person been reprimanded for his obviously lack of ability to do his job? I bet not.

Who is this phantom person who is calling all these companies and finding that they have lazy black workers all screaming affirmative action? Is this the persons job? I have worked for over 25 years and I have never seen this type of behavior. Don’t get me wrong I have seen my share of lazy people like I have said. I just have yet to see the black screaming affirmative action as if it is some sort of threat.

Why don’t you do me a favor and tell your husbands idiotic employer that affirmative action is a set of standards NOT LAWS. You don’t HAVE to keep anyone employed that does NOT do his or her job. Maybe your husband, his employers, the phantom phone caller, and all the other businesses should do a bit more to educate themselves instead of feigning outrage at a situation they are creating for themselves.

Thanks.

But I only hear stories of companies having a hard time firing people from white people who insist it is impossible to fire black people. When I turn on the news I constantly hear stories of companies laying off thousands of people, I constantly hear stories of people being fired for fraud and misrepresentation. But no company in the country can fire lazy black people who don’t report for work and misrepresent themselves on their resume because they are too afraid of being sued.

And it’s always only the black employee that is so lazy and shiftless. There is never a story of a white employee being incompetent or never showing up for work. All white people are hardworking. But the only black person that the company was forced to hire because they wouldn’t hire black people originally is shiftless.

Forgive my suspicion but I cannot believe you or your husband or all of your white friends all over the place and at other plants who have the same problem. If all these black men lied on their resumes and no one bothered to check their credentials it sounds like the white employees in the human resource departments at all of these companies are pretty lazy and irresponsible as well. It also sounds like all the white people who work in the legal department and in management are too lazy to tackle the problem of incompetent employees as well. It is not too hard to fire people who are incompetent or who refuse to do their job. It happens all the time. But let white people tell the story and black people never work and black people can never be fired even though our unemployment rates are significantly higher than white people’s. When will these blatant, white, affirmative action lies ever end?

Peace

Are you saying that your brother was the ONLY white applicant and everyone else was black? Then maybe he could be sure that he was passed over for a black candidate. If they had white, black AND other races of applicants then how does he know that HIS job was given to a black person through affirmative action? Also, you notice I emphasized “HIS”, since why is he so sure HE was the one who should be hired?

Is his confidence that he was number one due to the fallacy that many white people have that they are the most qualified simply because the competition is black? Since BrotherP is totally correct that the civil tests scores are kept private. I have taken the civil test and beat out hundreds of other candidates MANY of whom were white and they didn’t know my scores and I didn’t know theirs.

So by your own statements you are either doing like BrotherP said and being a fear monger or you and/or your brother is delusional and/or a liar. Also, just to drum it into you and others Affirmative Action is a set of guidelines NOT some strict set of laws with hawkish lawyers waiting around every corner at every job place waiting to snatch every minority that doesn’t get hired and begin the lawsuit process.

Give me and everyone else a break PLEASE?

So the people who hire candidates to be firefighters made the test scores and agility scores of all the applicants public information and then had the audacity to pass people over to hire the less qualified minority candidate. You are going to have to forgive my skepticism. When the fire department decides to hire they have a number of opportunities to fill. They have a civil test that a number of people take at the same time. The same is true for the physicals, everybody takes them at the same time. As far as I know, people’s scores are not made public information. And if your brother was number one as you claim, and they are making several hires at the same time, if he was passed over for the first job, he should have gotten the second, or the third, etcetera. Unless it is Mayberry, there will be several employment opportunities at any given time when the decision is made to hire.

Please take a moment to read this article from the Center for Constitutional Rights. The article outlines the racial inequality of the large city fire department. The people in the article had to sue the government in order to get the test scores of the applicant. But somehow your brother was able to get that information freely.

I cannot convey how dubious your story or your brother’s story sounds. Affirmative action does not make it illegal not to hire a black person. If that was true there would be a number of companies with black people the majority in management and at the executive level. And yet, I can’t think of a single company where this is the case. Why do people insist on this claim that companies are being sued left and right for not hiring a black person? That is just plain foolishness designed to scare white people into thinking that black people have some kind of advantage when we don’t. It’s like Geraldine Ferraro’s claim that the only reason Mr. Obama is getting all this political attention is because he is black. If that was the case then a black person would have been president a long time ago.

And white people are never passed over for a less qualified white person. White people are only passed over to hire less qualified black people. Besides, everybody knows that to get hired as a firefighter all you need is to score high on the test administered and developed by white people and score high on the agility test. Nothing else matters.

Peace

But I strongly suggest that you not hold your breath!

Peace

Most likely if someone can come up with an example of AA working an unjust result, there will be some room to demonstrate (a) the that problem is in the interpretation of what is a “fair” or “just result,” or (b) that the problem exists in someone’s erroneous interpretation or application of what the AA policy in question requires.

The policy itself is a good thing. I’m interested in hearing solid, evidence-backed examples of what wrongs it has wrought.